-We move now from healthcare to conservation.

Red Rock Canyon wants visitors to enjoy its beauty, not just during the day, but at night as well and, in particular, it's night sky.

That's why Red Rock is seeking designation as an Urban Night Sky Place.

That's one of several designations from the International Dark Sky Places program under the nonprofit DarkSky International.

For example, the Grand Canyon, which you are looking at pictures of now, is designated as an International Dark Sky Park.

Other designations include Dark Sky Sanctuary and Dark Sky Community.

We spoke with Save Red Rock cofounder Pauline van Betten and Dark Sky International program associate Michael Rymer about what Red Rock is out to achieve.

Okay.

So, Michael, Red Rock Canyon wants to be designated as an Urban Night Sky Place.

What does that even mean?

-So the Urban Night Sky Place is an area that is very close proximity to a very densely populated urban area, Las Vegas being for Red Rock Canyon.

And so we are recognizing the efforts of Red Rock Canyon and places like it for what they are able to do to bring the public to the place to experience a night sky.

It may not be a pristine night sky because of that urban center, but it is still significantly better than in the center of that urban place.

So it's a place for appreciation for people to come, and it's also demonstrating what good responsible outdoor lighting is.

So it's kind of two-fold in enjoyment and then an understanding and learning experience for what proper outdoor lighting is all about.

-"Good responsible outdoor lighting," may be a term that some of our viewers have never heard.

We'll dive into that, but I want to ask you, Pauline, why does Save Red Rock want this designation?

-Save Red Rock has a professional mission of keeping Red Rock rural.

And with an interface with one of the major metropolitan areas, it's an ongoing project.

So one of the impacts is light in possibly the lightest city in the world.

And it's important that we start now to preserve the ability to see the stars at night.

And we know that people are so excited about that in response that we get for this mission, and that's really why we really want to make it for all future generations to be able to see the stars at night.

-Michael, what is it going to take for Red Rock Canyon to get this designation?

-Well, it's a very extensive process, or it can be depending on how many resources are allotted for the project itself.

We usually allocate, or at least explain the places to allocate, one to three years.

But it's a lot of education and outreach events, working with local communities nearby to garner that volunteer cooperation to improve not just inside the park, but outside the park, as well, lighting retrofits to make the lighting actually good and responsible, and then measuring night sky quality to track changes over time in a very scientific way.

So there's a lot that goes into this application process, but the folks at Red Rock Canyon are very adept, very knowledgeable about what needs to happen.

So they, they're-- I'm confident in what they're going to do.

-Those measurements, how thorough are they?

They take place over how long a period of time?

-We usually ask for about a year's worth of measurements every four months or so to account for seasonal changes and things like that.

Of course, you want to take your measurements during the new moon, because any natural light at night can throw off the night sky quality measurements.

So we ask for as much data as possible.

There's no such thing as not enough data.

So they are working on putting in some equipment, some devices to take measurements every night.

So there's a lot of different equipment out there that can be done, can be utilized to take these measurements.

-Who's doing the measurements?

Who's paying for them?

-The staff with the Red Rock Canyon BLM are going to be doing these measurements because they know the area better than anybody else.

They know where the darkest places are.

They know where these significant, you know, trailheads and everything are going to be the best spots to take those measurements.

-And so they're looking to prove, hey, the Las Vegas Strip may be over here.

You can see it from here, but it's still dark enough to get this kind of designation?

-That's exactly right.

-Yeah, that's really neat.

You talked about the public outreach, and there was an event held here in Las Vegas during International Dark Skies Week.

What happened there?

And that's actually a requirement of this designation, right, Pauline?

What do you have to do?

-Well, one of the most exciting things is that the Brett Torino Foundation donated a telescope for the public to be able to view the stars.

So we had an unveiling of the telescope, and we all got to see it.

And the images were incredible, just amazing.

And it was so invigorating.

We had someone show us the constellations in the sky, and we had just so much-- there was so much interest in that event, and to really see how people really got engaged.

And really, you know, Michael really gave us some five really simple points about how every person can help with light pollution, and it was inspiring.

So there was a call to action, and I felt like people were really invigorated about this project.

-That telescope is there right now?

We can go out and look through it at night?

-You'll be able to look through it when we have our next stargazing party in June, and we'll keep you posted.

We're gonna have a number of stargazing parties.

That's gonna be our next big mission, to keep the public informed, and you will always be able to look through the telescope at that time.

We're also going to be posting images on our website of what's being seen through the telescope, so we'll all be able to enjoy it.

-Wow.

And I think that is maybe what I struggled to understand is this is going to be-- or one of the benefits listed is that it can be a tourism booster, but we're in Las Vegas.

We already have a ton of tourism.

This does something different, though, at Red Rock that's currently not being done if this goes into place, and what is that?

What will it look like?

What are your dreams for this?

-Well, I think that it's true that just getting people to understand that this is a place where you can see the night sky, will bring people to see the night sky.

And even people, there's-- people in Las Vegas love Red Rock Canyon, and we're just-- and here's another facet.

Here's another facet of what you love so much.

You can look at the sky, learn about the sky, learn about the stars, and that's what we want to offer to people.

-Michael, you live in Denver, so you came into town for that event that I mentioned.

What do you think when you see the Las Vegas Strip?

Does that just hurt your stomach?

-It presents an opportunity.

Obviously, we're not going to try to shut down every single light on the Las Vegas Strip.

That would be impossible.

But what we want to do is mitigate the light pollution where we can, you know?

So the surrounding communities around Red Rock Canyon, what can they do to improve the night sky around the park?

The Vegas Strip is going to be the Vegas Strip, so we can only do so much.

But if we get the right people in the room at the table talking about what we can do, maybe we can change some minds and hearts to say, look, you can still have these lights.

They can still serve their purpose, but maybe let's kind of take a step back from how much we're using and maybe the ones where we can use them more responsibly, let's try to implement that.

-Wow, Michael!

Those are some big goals.

-We'll do what we can.

-One step at a time.

You talk about developments around Red Rock Canyon.

Right now there is a planned housing development for the area.

How could that impact this?

I mean, let's say Red Rock gets the designation, then this housing development is built, might you take the designation away if they don't follow light guidelines?

-Well, ideally, we want the surrounding communities and those who work very close, maybe even inside the park, to be on board with this designation.

The lighting management policy that the park has to implement only pertains to what is in their own jurisdiction.

So what we really want to see through the application project is that there's this cooperation with these communities, that it's a volunteer effort.

So that's why events like, you know, what we had during Dark Sky Week here is so important is because we want to show that this is the carrot, you know, this is what we can be rewarded with, not what we're trying to drive, you know, folks to do maybe against their will.

We want to show them the reason for doing it and that it's in good faith.

-Okay.

Do you have any concern, Pauline, about the current communities that exist around Red Rock?

-Well, I'd like to also add that in 2003, Clark County passed an ordinance, a Red Rock Overlay.

And the Red Rock Overlay gives guidelines for development in the Red Rock Canyon, because we have private land within the Red Rock Canyon and adjacent to the Red Rock Canyon.

And a large part of that code is about low-level lighting that's required for new development.

So the-- we-- there's a current development that you spoke of on the hill, and the last plan that they submitted had very extensive low-level lighting plans in that.

So we're very optimistic that the developers will jump in.

And I think that is a selling point, you know?

It's just they-- it's a rural, it's a rural community, and they're coming to have a rural experience, and seeing the stars is part of it.

-Have people forgotten how cool it is to see stars?

-I think some people don't even know.

It's unfortunate.

I think maybe some people who live deep in the heart of Las Vegas and other cities like it may have never gone out to Red Rock Canyon and taken a look at the night sky.

So we don't really know what we're missing.

So that's why it's such a great opportunity with the certification to draw more attention to Urban Night Sky Places so that folks in these highly urbanized areas can see what's going on beyond the light-polluted areas in which they live.

-You said "responsible outdoor lighting."

What does that mean?

-Yeah.

So we have developed these five basic principles for responsible outdoor lighting, which means if you adhere to all of these principles together, you will significantly reduce the amount of light pollution that any light fixture will produce.

So the first principle is determining whether a light is useful or not and if it's even necessary.

The second is using shielding to direct the light only downward.

We do not live and work up in the sky; we only work here on the ground, so that's what we need to light.

We need to use less of the light, less intense light, because if we direct it more towards the ground, we don't need to use as much light as possible.

We want to use warmer light, meaning like an amber color.

That is better for sky glow, reducing sky glow, which is what blocks out the stars at night.

And then, finally, we want to control our lights better, make it so that they can turn off on their own without us having to remember to turn off a light switch.

So motion detectors, dimmers, timers, these are great things to implement when we're not using them.

-How well aware do you think, both of you think, this issue of light pollution is to people?

When did you first become aware of it?

-Well, I worked on the Red Rock Overlay, and so that was, like I said, a big part of our focus, and that was in 2003.

So it's been on my radar for a while.

-Do you have trouble explaining it to people who don't understand it?

-I agree with you.

I think that people really don't appreciate, let's put it, light as pollution.

You know, we think we're turning on our porch light and we're just illuminating our house.

We're not appreciating that we're impacting nocturnal animals.

We're impacting even our circadian rhythm.

We're impacting so much of the natural world.

But to your point, I don't think that people have associated that, but I think we really need to bring that to the forefront, that it does impact us and that less light-- I love what Michael said.

It's so easy.

They just turn off a switch.

-And I also didn't realize the impact on animals.

How impactful is it?

-Well, I mean, a lot of species live and hunt, migrate, reproduce at night.

That's just how they evolved.

And so when we introduce too much light into their ecosystem, they are not able to do those things under the cover of darkness, for which they have been able to adapt over so many years.

So when we impede that for them, it can have some harmful downstream effects.

A lot of these species are pollinators, so they make sure that the food that we eat or the flowers that we love, the agave, you know, that makes tequila, you know, there are species of bats that pollinate that.

These are things that we as humans kind of depend on.

So when we kind of take that away, the opportunity for them to survive and thrive, then that impacts us as well.

-We certainly do depend on tequila, huh?

-Yes.

[laughter] -Michael Rymer with Dark Sky International and Pauline van Betten with Save Red Rock, thank you so much for joining Nevada Week.

-Thank you so much for having us.