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Hey everybody, welcome to the Home Run Derby of news talk shows.

I can only hope I do as well as Jordan Walker did.

Alvin Reid sitting in for Charlie Brennan.

And I'm joined this week by media veteran, Wendy Weise.

Filling in for Bill McClellan this week is Jason Rosenbaum from St.

Louis Public Radio.

We have our guy, Joe Holleman from the St.

Louis Post-Dispatch.

And from KMOX, Amy Marxkors.

Welcome aboard you guys, haven't seen you in a while.

Yeah, good to see you.

Good to be here.

Well we really had just a terrible story this week in East St.

Louis where a pair of teenagers conspired and pulled off just multiple murders.

And it has made national and international news.

Obviously the kind that we don't need in the St.

Louis region.

But you know, Joe, we've been talking about teens as far as teen takeovers and teen behavior.

And I also want to say there's also an incident in Hillsboro or in Jefferson County involving teenagers.

And that led to murder or at least someone was killed.

It's beyond teen takeovers.

It's beyond just, you know, what do we do with the teenagers.

This is very serious.

Is it time to just be a little bit more harsh with our young ones?

And curfews everywhere and just kind of get tough on teenagers.

You know, I think we're being forced into that situation.

And the reason I say that is because not that there hasn't been multiple murders like we saw in East St.

Louis or totally careless accidental murders like it appears in Jefferson County.

It's that these were intentional and they were so young.

And I think that's the thing.

I understand when, you know, 19, 20-year -olds, when I say understand, that has happened for a long time.

But we're getting 14- and 15-year -olds who are committing crimes that just, it was unfathomable.

When I was 14 or 15, I thought of doing knuckleheaded things.

That never even crossed my mind that I or anybody I knew in my universe would do those things.

And now they seem, for the lack of a better word, somewhat commonplace where you have a 16-year-old and a 15-year -old not just killing somebody, conspiring to wipe out an entire family.

And I don't know where that comes from, but what happens is it forces you to realize that the idea that terrible crimes are committed by people 18 and older, no.

It seems like it just keeps getting younger and younger.

So do you need stiffer measures?

I think you at least have to look at them.

Absolutely you do.

Well, I mean, you're seeing armed carjackings by younger and younger kids, 12-years-old, 13 -years-old, 14-years-old.

Of course, this case in East St.

Louis, I mean, this is at the extreme where it's a mass murder of one of the bodies, you know, partially mutilated.

This was particularly evil and shocking because of how young they are.

But law enforcement isn't parenting.

Like, where are the parents or where are the authorities?

How does this happen over and over again?

Even when you look at something that seems harmless now compared to the more violent crimes, like the teen takeovers or even the Sky Zone incident, there's adults dropping off some of these kids, these 12-year-olds, in a chaotic situation.

So, yes, we're being reactionary as a society, but we can't fix it with law enforcement.

You need authority, you need parents, you need families.

That was going to be what I was going to say.

I think whether there should be curfews in individual communities is up to individual communities, but I am hesitant to say that there needs to be some broad policy proposal from this horrific incident because I'm just a little hesitant to paint all teenagers with the same brush.

They're not in group chats talking about wanting to murder people.

Obviously, these people were, and I think we should be shocked and appalled that it should make national news.

I just don't – I think that also my hesitancy is, like, if there's curfews everywhere, are we really going to have enough police to enforce that when they have a lot of other issues to deal with?

I feel like that's more of a statement than an actual policy unless there's actual enforcement.

Like, there has been occasion in the city, for sure.

I think that we are seeing the – you know, it always takes a while for us to see the cause and effect of these sort of cultural watershed moments or developments, and I think a lot of this does have to do with technology.

I think a lot of this does have to do with social media.

I think if you look back to 1959 and Hickok and Smith and the two convicts who were murdered, wiped out, the Clutter family, Truman Capote writing in cold blood, you know, today the news cycle, the coverage, the viralness of something like this is instantaneous.

And the fact that, you know, I think there is – I think that we have to sort of, like, get rid of our notion of, you know, long ago you were probably thinking about the most scandalous thing you could do is put firecrackers in a mailbox or something.

But we have to, as adults, we have to really pay attention to what we're seeing.

The adults saw this chat where this young girl was talking about planning on killing her family, and they dismissed it because that's their daughter.

She was being homeschooled.

They were doing what they thought was the right thing.

I just think there is – I think there is a social media technological component here because we've seen it now – what has it been, like, 10, 15 years where we've sort of been in the, you know, in the social media moment, and I think now we're beginning to see families have failed, schools are failing.

I just – I think there's something there that needs to be investigated.

And I didn't see a curfew as a solution.

No.

And, of course, local ones I think just were being forced to it.

And I agree absolutely with what Amy said.

It needs to start with parenting.

It just has to.

But until that time, because we can't just snap our fingers and make everybody take seriously their parental responsibilities, our place is going to go in with stricter curfews to make sure kids aren't out doing these sort of things.

So I don't see a curfew as the solution.

I see parents and a community as the solution.

I just think that somewhere you may be forced to do something.

Okay, before we move on.

16 years old and 15 years old, they have to be tried as adults.

I mean, I'm just beyond any kind of – Well, because there's premeditation involved.

Yeah.

Right, right.

And place to place to place.

Yeah.

I think that, yeah, I think in that instance probably.

Okay.

All right.

Well, in the St.

Louis County Executive Race, we have Brian Williams versus Jake Zimmerman.

The Post-Dispatch endorsed Jake Zimmerman.

Amy, you had Jake on.

I don't know if you've talked to Brian, but it should be a close race and it's getting a lot of buzz out in St.

Louis County.

Yeah, we had a few of the candidates in.

We had Dennis Hancock, the lone Republican.

Yeah, thank you.

We did have Dennis Hancock in.

I was not there for Brian Williams, was there for Jake Zimmerman.

And the – is it reassuringly nerdy?

Is that the tagline?

Something like that with his commercials.

And I will say it was a nice conversation focused a lot on – nice meaning it seemed reasonable, very practical.

It wasn't sexy.

I guess it was reassuringly nerdy when we talked about the numbers and the budgets with St.

Louis County.

I know I feel rude saying this, but with, like, Sam Page's tenure coming to an end for the phrase our long national nightmare is over because that's how it felt.

I mean, you can talk – you know, Sam Page was very divisive, but even going back to COVID, going back to his time as a doctor and an anesthesiologist saying that, you know, he's not spending too many hours working at the hospital, but he won't reveal the hours.

Well, whenever there's a lack of transparency, you're going to fill the gaps with worst-case scenario.

And so to move on from Sam Page is reassuring.

Yeah, Jake Zimmerman might be just a calm, non-controversial voice that maybe St.

Louis County will be ready for.

I think that's what we thought about Sam Page.

I mean, seriously, after Steve Stenger, you know, he was the calm after that storm.

Alvin, you said that there's only two candidates in the Democratic primary.

There's three.

You did not mention Senator Angela Walton Mosley, which I think is the reason why the post-dispatch didn't endorse Brian Williams because they thought that the fact that she got in the race is potentially a spoiler.

And, by the way, she told St.

Louis Public Radio's Rachel Lipman that she did not get into a race as a spoiler and that she has the right to run because it's an open race.

And I'm paraphrasing here.

Like, Brian Williams brought that drama upon himself.

Like, I found that to be an odd argument.

I did, too.

I did, too.

And, actually, she's not really campaigning, so I guess to call her a candidate is fair, even though she has no campaign.

She's a candidate.

She's on the ballot.

She's won two terms as a state senator, and she had primary opponents both times.

She's part of the Albert Walton political machine out in North County, which seems to win.

I'm not saying that she, at this point, is going to win because the other two have more money, but I could see her anywhere from being a non-factor, like when Maria Chappelle Nadal ran in the first district race two years ago, or she could take a lot of votes, and that could potentially hurt Brian Williams.

But you don't think she's a stalking horse?

For who?

Zimmerman?

Mm-hmm.

Well, I don't think so.

I think that she got into the race because she doesn't like Shalonda Webb.

Shalonda Webb is allied more with Brian Williams, and I think that that is probably more what happened than some grand, you know, Charlie Day on a chalkboard.

Not a chalkboard, but, you know, it's always sunny in Philadelphia.

There's, like, red lines everywhere.

A board, whatever.

Obviously, you've dealt with Brian a lot down in the state legislature.

It seems like he's just kind of like, what did I do to deserve this?

Because would you say he was an effective legislator in Jefferson City?

I mean, for a Democratic senator, I would say yes because he was on the budget committee and Democrats typically have a lot more influence on the budget committee.

And I've gotten a lot of mailers saying, I got $50 million for this and $70 million for that.

And, you know, because Democrats have more power to do that, I think that that has some accuracy involved with it.

What I really found interesting about this contest is I really thought Brian was going to be this quote-unquote establishment candidate who would get all the trade union endorsements, but it seems like the unions have endorsed Zimmerman, which is kind of surprising because a lot of progressive-y people are gravitating more towards Zimmerman than Williams, and the progressive-y people tend not to support the candidate who's supported by trade unions.

So there's a lot of interesting dynamics in this race, but, yeah, the fact that Sam Page is not in it is notable because this is the first county executive race in St.

Louis County without an incumbent on the ballot since 1974, which is well before I was born.

Oh, you know what?

I was going to say I was 14.

Before you were born?

Oh, my gosh.

So there you go.

That's rude.

And I'm older than you, Alvin, so, you know.

I'm right between the two of you.

On July 27th, our own Sarah Fitsky is going to be talking to the candidates here on 9PBS, so check that out, and they can speak for themselves.

All right.

Another race.

Cori Bush, she wants a rematch with Wesley Bell.

She's getting it all across the country.

Progressives are kind of doing well in places like New York.

Whether that plays out here in St.

Louis, we will see.

Wendy, what do you think about that race?

Well, I think that I was listening to Mark Maxwell on KTRS with Frank and Jill, and he was saying that quite a few people who support Wesley Bell are kind of disappointed with the fact that he hasn't really been a breakout new star, and I think a lot of people were looking to him for more of that kind of presence in Washington.

But Cori Bush, the fact of the matter is that this is still St.

Louis.

This is not New York.

This is certainly not Denver, Colorado.

And I think Wesley Bell has enough of a machine in place and enough support built in, and that's not even mentioning the pro -Israeli community here in St.

Louis, which is very strong.

And I think he will be victorious.

Well, I think it comes down to how North St.

Louis County votes.

I said this like two years ago.

I think I even said it four years ago when Bush was running against Steve Roberts.

That is the heart of this district, and one of the interesting things that you've seen in other parts of the country, especially races with a lot of black voters, and I guess the first district is ostensibly still a plurality African-American district, though I don't think we really know because the tornado may have displaced a lot of people.

I think that black voters are actually more conservative than, like, the progressivie.

I keep using the term progressivie here.

It's kind of cute.

It's kind of cute.

I like progressivie.

I think they are more conservative than, like, the AOCs or the people that won in New York.

But on the other hand, I think it's up to Wesley Bell to prove that he's delivered enough for them, and if he can't get out the vote in North County like he did in 2024, which is why he won because he won a number of townships there, then Cori Bush may have a shot because there definitely is a lot of momentum behind her faction of the Democratic Party now.

We'll have to see.

It's going to be close either way.

That's sort of my.

Since I'll be covering the race, I don't want to predict, and I always have a tough time.

Since 2016, I didn't have Trump coming out of the primary, so it shows you how good I am.

But I think one thing that does need to be pointed out is that because a person wins in New York City or Denver, this is a different animal.

So I don't think you can say, well, look at that.

It was a great Democrat socialist wave.

In New York City, sure.

This also takes in parts of West County, North County, and so you're still Democrat.

But I think what we're seeing here is there's two sides to the Democratic Party, and I think we see that in a couple of other races that are being held here, some we're going to talk about, where you have these Democratic primaries, and for lack of a better word, let's call it the liberal and more liberal.

And I think that you just can't say because Mondami is the mayor of New York City that the progressivy.

I like that word.

It's long.

But I think that you can't say, well, then it's going to happen in St.

Louis.

I think St.

Louis is a different animal.

It's also even amongst the liberal side, St.

Louis is more conservative.

We're not New York City.

No, we're not, and I think you have a lot of moderate Democrats.

You could even say old-school Democrats who are probably tired right now of the drama that goes on with just historically, right, with Cori Bush, or even just the very progressive Democrats as you have more prominent progressive Democrats pulling the Democratic Party left.

You're not only getting moderate Democrats being tired, but you're getting pretty progressive Democrats getting tired and saying how far left can it go because there is a difference between a very progressive Democrat and a Democratic Socialist.

And are we going to see the, you know, when you think of the pro-Palestinian movement on these college campuses, is that enough to energize those younger voters?

Well, I was going to say, I think that if you compare 2024 to 2026, the movement for Palestinian self-determination is probably a lot more popular within the Democratic Party now.

You saw that yesterday when 101 Democrats voted to cut off, ostensibly cut off funding from Israel, saw a statement from Emanuel Cleaver that said this didn't actually cut off funding and it could have given Trump a lot of leeway.

But I, and the other thing I'm also wondering about this race is like how much money like pro-Israel groups are going to spend on Leslie Bell.

They're clearly spending money, but is it going to be of the level of 2024?

And does that have an impact?

As I said in 2024, though, like I don't think black voters particularly see the Israel -Palestinian issue as a huge priority for them, which is why the AIPAC ads don't mention it at all.

Well, I also think you also have to ask yourself too, though, is who is it that voted for, that didn't vote for Cori Bush in 2024?

She lost by five points and she was an incumbent.

Who's she convinced to vote for her?

And that's kind of what we're looking at.

If you want to assume the people who voted for Wesley Bell will vote for him again, the people who voted for Cori Bush will vote for her.

Who has been able to sway anybody?

And that's the thing.

So when you talk about a lot of people, I think a lot of things and all candidates do this.

They do these statement things and really all they're doing is making statements to people who have already voted for them.

You know, it's kind of like you're not getting new votes.

You're simply solidifying your base.

And I think that's what both of them are doing.

And we'll see.

We'll go to the polls and we'll see.

I do think an increase in anti-Semitism, I mean, just at least the perceived anti -Semitic for those of us who spend a lot of time on social media.

I think that has ratcheted everything up a little bit this time.

And so maybe people who were, hey, we'll give Cori Bush a shot or what, they might file over into Wesley's column this time.

I just don't know.

Right.

I'm going Jason.

It just isn't.

I'm not in the district, but it's just not a priority.

Right.

She lost by five points last time.

51-46.

I'm standing with what I said when she first got into the race, that she'll lose worse this time.

And I'm sticking with that.

So let's set the over under it.

We can't be on an even number, so we'll set it at six and a half.

I think it's the over.

I think she I think she gets seven points.

And PBS does not believe in gambling.

That is totally rhetorical.

Horse betting is stupid.

If you were, I'd take the over.

Money in a mutual fund.

Two of the panels here are in the 4th senatorial district where we have Steve Butts versus Gina Mitten.

Should be a close race with two interesting candidates.

Jason, you're one.

You live in the 4th.

I live in the county part of the 4th.

And the 4th has been represented by somebody from St.

Louis City probably for 100 plus years now.

And I think by 2032, the 4th district will be majority county, the way the city's population is going.

They're not going to be able to have districts with majority city anymore.

And I think this race is fascinating because the two candidates are not the same.

A lot of times we cover state legislative races and they're basically popularity contests.

That's not the case here.

Butts voted for the state takeover of the police department.

Mitten is opposed to it.

She says that Kara Spencer should have had a chance to put her stamp on public safety.

While Butts says that it increased morale for the St.

Louis Police Department.

And also on abortion, even though I know Butts is saying that he does not support the new Amendment 3 and he supported the old Amendment 3.

He has voted for bills that restrict abortion rights.

And that has become an issue.

They're also different on charter schools as well.

So I think they're both two really strong candidates for a lot of reasons.

But I think the abortion issue in particular, which is going to be particularly important in November when we vote on the abortion legalization redo, it could be quite energizing.

And it could get Mitten some votes in the city in the parts where Joe does not live, which it tends to actually support more anti-abortion.

Well, as opposed to Jason, who lives in the silk stocking area.

I live more in the blue collar part of St.

Louis Hills.

But you have two experienced legislators who know how to go out and campaign.

I mean, I think it's one of those I think it's an interesting race or a good race just because you have a couple of pros who know how this works and they know what they're looking for.

And I think they've both been very honest where they stay.

When I did the election preview story on the race, Steve Butts said, yeah, I'm pro -life.

I am.

I'm against the death penalty and I'm against abortion.

But maybe we can work something out.

Gina Mitten said I'm for I'm pro-choice.

I mean, I think there was no games being played here.

I think it's two people who have some are Democrats.

They are Democrats.

They dislike.

And I think it's another one where you talk about there's a more liberal and a conservative side within the Democratic Party.

I think this is where it exists.

And, you know, Steve Butts, a long time ago, was not an unusual being a Democrat who was pro-life.

There were a fair amount of them.

Blue dog Democrats.

Tom Eagleton being one of them.

Yeah.

And for a time, Dick Gephardt.

That's right.

And thank you.

Thank you very much.

And so I think it's an interesting race in that it's a couple of pros going at it.

And I think it's you know, you talk about setting lines there.

I don't think you could.

I think if you say, oh, this person wins by a little bit, this person wins by a little bit.

I think it's all possible.

We'll see.

And what's fascinating, he is her insurance agent.

You know, I mean, so that that's kind of, you know, that was quirky.

But that's kind of cool.

That's kind of fascinating.

Her insurance policies are written by Steve Butts.

By Crawford Butts.

However, OK, I do think that and I hope that he I hope he gains some ground because I think I think abort I think compromise any kind of compromise on abortion should not be extinguished or talk of or thought about.

And that seems to be where.

But I think it is because I think they're speaking it is shifted to human rights.

And if it's a human right violation, you are obligated to not compromise.

I'm talking about abortion on why I think the rhetoric around abortion.

I think we've snuffed out any any kind of talk of compromise.

Well, when you win, when you demographically, when you talk about the fact that we have we have to rely on other people to come into this country to fill the positions we do have.

I think this is way deeper.

I think you're right.

On issues that have absolutely nothing.

Probably right.

All right.

Hey, look, I just happen to be someplace.

I didn't plan on watching it, but I watched it and it was exciting.

Jordan Walker, two thumbs up for you.

You silence those loudmouths in Philadelphia.

You run the home run derby.

And I'm throwing it out here that I think this is just as important for St.

Louis as talking about downtown.

And, you know, we need millions of dollars for this and that.

I think we're on the map.

But that kind of put a little star on us on Monday night.

And I'm very appreciative.

What about you guys?

Yeah, I mean, I think it absolutely did.

Here's the thing.

I mean, sports equal relevance for your city.

The bigger the sport, the more relevance there is, which is why losing the Rams was a huge deal.

It was a huge blow to the city, not just economically, which is massive, not just to morale, but to our relevance.

And so with Major League Baseball, it's a huge sport.

And having Jordan Walker win the home run derby, not just win the home run derby, but do it in the way he did in Philadelphia, you know, when it was, you know, set up for Kyle Schwarber to win in his home city.

And here's Walker batting last with a walk -off win of the home run derby.

It brought a lot of attention to him.

It brought a lot of attention to St.

Louis, good and bad.

And that's good.

Anything that gets Philadelphia angry is A-OK by me.

Santa Claus named Philadelphia.

I think we all were kind of like that.

It felt like old times.

It really did.

It did.

And as happy as we have been for the Cardinals in the first half of the season, I said, like, you know what?

Maybe something is kind of happening here.

We'll see.

Three games in Arizona starting Friday night.

So no letters tonight.

But if you want to write to us, write to Donnie Brooke, 9PBS3655 Olive Street, St.

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Thank you, Amy and Jason, for sitting in tonight.

We are coming back with Last Call and go Cardinals in the second half of the season.

Donnybrook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of Nine PBS.