-We move now to Ballot Question 7.

It asks, "Should the Nevada Constitution be amended to require voters to either present photo identification to verify their identity when voting in person or to provide certain personal information to verify their identity when voting by mail ballot?"

Because Question 7 seeks to amend Nevada's Constitution, Nevadans will have to approve the measure in this general election and the next in 2026 before the requirement would go into effect in 2028.

Here to tell us why you should vote yes on Question 7 is David Gibbs, President of the Repair the Vote Political Action Committee.

And here to tell us why you should vote no on Question 7 is Emily Persaud-Zamora, Executive Director of Silver State Voices.

I'd like to begin by giving each of you about 30 seconds to summarize your stance.

David, you first.

(David Gibbs) Okay.

Welcome and thanks for having me on the show.

One of the most important things we do as citizens of the U.S. is to vote in our elections.

And people need to have faith in the process, and they need to have faith in the results.

One of the ways of doing that is verifying that each individual voting is that specific person who's registered to vote.

And creating a requirement for a photo ID or requiring someone who mails their ballot in to provide information to verify their identity goes a long way in making that happen.

-Thank you.

Emily.

(Emily Persaud-Zamora) Thank you and good evening.

Thank you for having me.

You know, as David said, voting is a constitutional right that all folks in the United States that are 18 and U.S. citizens have the right to do so.

But what we have seen is that we have already a safe and secure system.

There are many mechanisms that the Elections Department and Secretary of State's Department use to verify that folks are current valid voters.

And so this proposal is a proposal that we view as a fear tactic and not a proposal for an actual problem.

-Thank you, Emily.

Let's go back to how effective this method would be in preventing voter fraud.

Making sure someone provides photo ID at the time of voting, how effective do you think this would be?

-Well, there's two parts that go along with this.

Number one is it will stop somebody who shouldn't be, you know, if Jim Jones wants to vote for John Smith, this will stop that from happening, okay?

At the same time, it just gives, it gives everybody confidence when they walk in, that, Hey, you know, we have, we are verifying you are who you say you are.

24 states already have a requirement for photo ID.

36 have some requirement for some form of ID when you go in to vote.

Nevada is one of the ones that does not.

And in all of these other states, it works.

It's fine.

people are not being disenfranchised.

People are not being-- they're being allowed to vote.

They have the IDs necessary to do it.

And the biggest aspect of it is to give people faith and confidence that the system and the process is working as it should, that only citizens are voting and that that registered voter is that person who votes.

-Emily, do you think this would be effective, and is it necessary?

-I don't think that it's necessary.

And there really is minimal research to show that it's actually been effective across all of the other states that actually have it implemented.

If anything, what the research does show is that for a variety of different communities, it would actually discourage them from participating, because there are different barriers for certain communities to access identification.

And because of those barriers, they would be less likely to actually turn out and participate in our democracy.

-And you have to expand on that.

Why is it hard for certain communities to get access to a driver's license, a government issued photo ID, for example?

-Yeah.

It depends on what the community is.

It's not one set, set of issues for everyone, but think about unhoused folks, right?

They are-- many of them are U.S. citizens and 18 years of age, but because they don't have a home and they may not actually have their documents with them, like, their-- you know, to get a Nevada ID, for example, you need your birth certificate and you need to be able to get your social security card.

Those are not documents that they may actually have available to them, thus making it more difficult for them to actually go to the Department of Motor Vehicles.

Transportation is also an issue for a variety of voters, whether they're unhoused folks or low income.

And I would also throw in folks that may be transgender, that have experienced a change but have not changed their identification on their ID, being able to prove that they have gone through those necessary changes in changing their identification is also often a hurdle.

-David, I believe you wanted to respond to a point earlier.

-Absolutely.

There are already methods if you are homeless in Nevada.

There are homeless people who are registered to vote in Nevada.

That's been, that's a fact.

Their ability to get an ID, I mean.

They go to the DMV and they can get a photo ID.

If you're going to register to vote, you have to provide some sort of identification who you are when you register to vote.

So obviously, they're registered to vote.

They provided some form of identification that says who they are.

They either have a photo ID or they have something else that says, I-- the two options when you register, you have to prove you have a residence or that you have an address.

A lot of folks are registered at some of the shelters.

But the point is that the capability exists to get an ID.

If you are homeless, you can get one for free.

Now, as far as getting to the DMV, one of the things when you're a citizen, you have responsibilities.

If you want to vote, one of your responsibilities is to meet the requirements to vote.

Just like you pay your bills.

Theoretically, you pay your bills on time.

You get to work on time.

All right?

This is another one of those responsibilities, one of the greatest we have as citizens.

So you know if, if you want to vote, you have to take the steps necessary.

You registered to vote, you can get an ID.

-How would you respond to that, that if you are registered to vote, you have had to present a photo ID?

-That's actually not 100% accurate, and I want-- yes, there are a lot of folks who are unhoused who have registered to vote, thanks to Senator Melanie Scheible in her, in the legislature, passed an amazing bill that allows folks to be able to do so.

However, you can register to vote with the last four of your social.

You don't have to actually have the Nevada ID.

It is an option, but it is not a requirement.

And so those folks could actually do that.

And I think, when I'm thinking of this narrative that David is saying, we have to-- as somebody who's been, who's dedicated to civic engagement, I work with communities from all across Nevada that have a variety of different circumstances.

When we advocate for policy, we can't just think about our day-to-day lives.

I have the privilege to be able to just go to the DMV and have my documents and be able to pay for it, but that's not everybody's life, right?

And we have to be able to-- when we legislate or when we vote, we have to be able to think about how something impacts all folks.

-I think that may be one of the hardest things for our viewers to understand is that, how are people living and operating day to day without a photo ID?

How are they applying for jobs?

How are they going to the doctor, for example?

-Yeah.

I think that that's a very valid question.

And I think that in a lot of those circumstances, folks are able to find some level of different form of identification.

That's not one of the forms that are included in this ballot measure, because there's a variety of different identifications.

But I think one thing that is very important for voters to know is that going to the doctor, as much as I would love it to be a constitutional right, it's not a constitutional right.

Being able to cast your ballot is an actual constitutional right.

And so we have to look at the two things in a different lens.

-David?

-At the same time, you know, you commented about having your social security number, you put the last four on, you can still vote by mail without a photo ID.

All you need is the last four of your social security number.

You don't need a driver's license.

You don't need a photo ID to vote by mail.

That's one of the things about Nevada that makes our situation a little bit different from some of the other states is that most of the other states, if you don't have a photo ID, you can't vote at all.

In Nevada, you still the opportunity to vote by mail.

So that still exists.

That's one of the, one of the avenues that folks that say, I don't have a photo ID, I don't want to get a photo ID, you can still vote by mail.

So that opportunity exists.

-However, if Question 7 were to be passed, that would actually change that process.

-No, it wouldn't.

-It would.

It actually would.

-How would it change the process?

-Because you do have to provide some form of identification.

-Provide the last four of your social security number.

-Yes.

-If you had that on the form to register, you've got your social security number.

-Yes.

But putting it on the, on the voter, on the voter registration form is different than actually putting something that's in the mail.

I want to name that.

And the other thing is that-- -And why is that?

-Because you're putting it in the actual mail, so I don't feel like it's-- that's not something that everybody is going to want to put through the mail.

It's a level of comfort that folks have.

And the other point that I wanted to get to is, currently, the yes campaign creates the solution that there is no form of security in checking who folks are.

The state of Nevada is a signature verification state, and the Elections Department in all 17 counties go through a rigorous process to ensure that when a ballot is collected, whether it's through mail ballot or through other forms of voting, that they are matching that.

And if for some reason there is an issue with that, they're able to contact the voter, and the voter is able to cure their ballot.

And it has shown as an effective form of verifying who they are, because there are a variety of different databases that they have to verify that that voter's signature matches.

-And it's important to note that the current Secretary of State and the past Secretary of State, who was conservative, both came to the conclusion that there was no evidence of widespread voter fraud.

David, do you believe that there was widespread voter fraud?

-No, I don't.

But let me tell you something: You don't know what you don't look for.

If you don't have somebody who complains about the fact of-- if John-- if Jane goes in to vote and they say, Sorry, you've already voted, and she goes, I didn't vote, and they go, Well, you voted at this location on this day, she goes, I didn't do that.

And she's not going to be allowed to vote now.

But unless there's somebody who complains, you don't know.

So you know it's-- and so that's part of the issue.

You know, we have, and I applaud the Secretary of State's office.

They recently moved over 100,000 people from active to inactive status.

That's 100,000 people who were registered to vote who shouldn't have been registered to vote here in Nevada, because either they don't live here or they've passed away or for whatever reason, they're not-- they're not at the address that they were registered to vote at.

It doesn't take a lot of fraudulent votes to change a race.

In North Las Vegas, in 2011, we had a tie in the primary race.

The next election process in 2013, I think it was, my city councilman lost by one vote.

In 2020, Stavros Anthony and Ross Miller, I think the decision was like 15 votes.

-It's 10.

-Ten votes at the end of, at the end of the election.

It doesn't take a lot to change an election.

And anything that we can do to make sure-- and in that election, by the way, the Registrar of Voters, the Register of Voters at the time said he had over 130 questionable ballots.

And he actually, if I remember right, recommended that they redo that race, and the County Commission voted to certify it as it was.

So, you know, it doesn't take an awful lot to change.

It doesn't have to be widespread fraud to impact an election.

We've had many close elections in this state, and I've been-- I've lived in different states, and I've seen a lot of these close elections.

-And you think a voter ID law-- -I think-- - --would help that situation?

-I think everything that we can do to make sure, given today's environment, today's technology-- I mean, when I've gone in to vote and signed that thing-- one year, I had to sign it about four times before they said, Okay, that looks like you.

-And that didn't make you feel secure enough in our elections?

-No.

-What were you saying?

-I appreciate and I believe that Mr. Gibbs does not believe that there is wide voter fraud.

But the reality is, is that the narrative that has been created behind voter ID insinuates that there is.

And the reality is that in the state of Nevada and all across the country, there have only been 31 cases ever to, to be associated with voter fraud.

And so the question that I have is, where is the voter fraud, right?

It does not actually exist, and this campaign is feeding into a narrative that is creating fear into folks so that they don't feel confident when they actually go and cast their ballot, whether it's mail or in person.

But that's not okay to create something-- -That figure, 31, do you want to elaborate on that?

-Sure.

Previous comment, you don't know what you don't look for.

And also the fact that 36 states right now have some form of voter ID.

So therefore, you would expect that, hey, there wouldn't be an awful lot of examples of fraud in those states.

If they're verifying when you go in to vote that it's you, then there's not a problem.

-I want to get into the-- -But respectfully, Mr. Gibbs, I've been doing this for a really long time.

And all of the counties and the Secretary of State's office do do a magnificent job ensuring that they are doing audits.

They have good processes into play to ensure that fraud is not happening.

-Well, I-- this is, this is a way election security and election-- I don't want to-- election security is important-- I make a comment about people need to have faith in the system.

We saw here what happened, not just in Nevada, but across the country, in 2020.

We saw in 2000 what happened in Florida.

We've seen what happened in many places where, you know, there have been questions put on people.

And their, you know, faith in the system is probably one of the most important things.

It's like when you play a football game, right, there are rules.

There are rules that have to be followed.

If you lose the game and the game was played by the rules, you can accept that.

But if the refs make bad calls, if you have problems with things done, if the rules are not followed properly, then it raises issues.

Deflategate, back when Tom Brady got accused of deflating footballs.

Those kinds of things raise questions about-- -Some argue the Constitution is the rule-- - --did we play this game?

Is this legit?

- -- being applied to prevent voter ID.

-Thank you for coming on together, because I believe both of you have at least known of each other for several years now, because you wanted this measure on the 2022 ballot.

-Correct.

-You fought against that happening.

-Thank you for-- this is the first time that you're meeting each other, correct?

-Yes.

-Yes.

I've heard her name and I've seen pictures of her, I've seen her on your show, but we've not met.

-Oh, he's looked me up on Google.

-Hey, you gotta do your homework.

-Last point, the financial impact of this.

Secretary of State's office says $6,700 to change the processes and systems related to checking in voters with the ID.

But the unknown part about this, because the Fiscal Analysis Division of the state is assuming that it will have to provide, at no cost, a correct form of ID, the needed form of ID.

It's unknown what that impact could be, because how many people are going to be seeking this ID?

Do you want to comment on that?

That could be pretty expensive.

-Well, you know, back in 20-- the last legislative session last year, there was a bill was brought forward to do this for photo ID.

Assemblyman Hafen brought it forward.

And the Fiscal Analysis did their study and basically said, We have no idea how many in Nevada do not have photo IDs.

And they estimated less than 20,000 and that it would cost maybe, maybe $100,000 to do this.

One of the things raised is the fact that, is there an unfunded mandate?

Well, the judge, when we got sued, this is what the judge said, "The language of the proposed constitutional amendment does not create an appropriation or unfunded expenditure."

That was what the judge said.

The Supreme Court, when they heard the appeal from our opponents, basically said the same thing.

There is, there is nothing in this that causes an unfunded mandate.

And so, therefore, that argument that they put in there is, is not accurate at this point.

And the other part is they say it's like 6,000 bucks.

Every election, they have to print ballots.

Every election, they have to program machines.

Every election, they have to train people.

So they have to change the training and they have to do a reprogramming with some of the machines.

That happens every election.

So it's not like, it's not like, you know, they have to grab a bunch of new things in order to prepare for this.

-Final comment from you, Emily.

-Yes.

So the proposed ballot initiative, as it's written, does not have a form of allotment financially for identification.

We have seen states that have passed voter ID initiatives, and it has cost it-- like the state of Indiana, for example, when they implemented voter ID, it cost the state about $10 million in order to pass it.

If this measure were to pass in both ballot measures, it would be up to the state legislature to see if they wanted to create some level of legislation that would, that will allow for free IDs.

The problem here is then, then it puts the burden on the voter.

You have to financially do that, right?

And I think that in, you know, some of my previous points, we don't know what everybody's financial status is, and we should not be adding different barriers, right?

A Nevada driver's license is $22 currently.

However, if you're a person that your license was suspended, that was-- that's actually $75, right?

And that's not, you know, pocket change for most folks.

-I have to wrap you there.

Thank you so much for joining Nevada Week.

And thank you for watching.

Early voting starts Saturday, October 19, and runs through Friday, November 1.

Election Day is Tuesday, November 5.