>>> "YOUR LEGISLATORS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE MINNESOTA CORN GROWERS ASSOCIATION.

MINNESOTA CORN FARMERS ARE PROUD TO INVEST IN THIRD PARTY RESEARCH LEADING TO A MORE SUSTAINABLE FUTURE FOR OUR LOCAL COMMUNITIES.

MINNESOTA FARMERS UNION, STANDING FOR AGRICULTURE, WORKING FOR FARMERS ON THE WEB AT MFU.ORG.

>> Barry: GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S VERSION OF "YOUR LEGISLATORS".

MY NAME IS BARRY ANDERSON.

I WILL BE YOUR HOST THIS WEEK AND ALL THE WEEKS THAT FOLLOW AS WE UNRAVEL THE MYSTERIES OF ST. PAUL.

THIS PROGRAM BELONGS TO YOU, AND WE INVITE YOU TO CALL IN OR SEND YOUR QUESTIONS IN TO US VIA QUESTIONS ON THE SCREEN.

WE WILL SEE YOUR QUESTIONS ABOUT THE LEGISLATIVE MISSIONS OF THE DAY GET TO THE DISTINGUISHED PANEL OF GUESTS.

PANEL OF GUESTS IS GOING TO BE BRIEF BECAUSE THE HOUSE IS STILL IN SESSION.

WE HAVE TWO VERY ABLE SENATORS TO HELP US, AND THEY CAN CARRY THE LOAD IN THE HOUSE AS WELL.

WE WILL HAVE THEM TALK ABOUT THEIR COLLEAGUES IN BOTH CHAMBERS.

WE BEGIN THIS EVENING AS WE DO EACH WEEK BY INTRODUCING IN THIS CASE OUR TWO GUESTS WHO WILL BE WITH US THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE FOLLOWING HOUR.

LET'S BEGIN WITH SENATOR JOHN HOFFMAN AND DISTRICT 54, I BELIEVE.

CHAMPLIN.

TELL OUR VIEWERS ABOUT YOURSELF.

COMMITTEES YOU SERVE ON, BACKGROUND AS LEGISLATURE, YOUR REAL LIFE.

>> I LOVE IT.

THANKS, BARRY.

ALWAYS GOOD TO BE BACK, AND I CAN'T WAIT UNTIL WE GO BACK LIVE, BECAUSE I MISS SITTING AT THE TABLE.

I BELIEVE THE LAST TIME SENATOR ABELER AND I WERE ON THE SHOW YOU THREW THE PEN UP AND SAID DO YOU WANT TO GO AHEAD, BECAUSE THE HOUSE PEOPLE, NOW THAT THEY ARE NOT HERE, WHEN THEY WERE THERE WE KIND OF KEPT TALKING FOR THEM.

THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS.

BUT SENATE DISTRICT 34, JUDGE, IT'S A BRAND-NEW SENATE DISTRICT, AND IT'S BROOKLYN PARK, CHAMPLIN, COON RAPIDS, DAYTON AND ROGERS.

20-MILE STRETCH ALONG THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER AND TOUCHES ALL THE WAY DOWN WHERE BROOKLYN PARK TOUCHES BROOKLYN CENTER AND GOES WAY UP WHERE HENNEPIN COUNTY MEETS RAY COUNTY.

I'M THE CHAIR OF HUMAN SERVICES.

I HAVE BEEN IN THE SENATE SINCE 2012.

I WAS ELECTED IN 2012, STARTED SERVING IN 2013 AND HAVE BEEN ON A NUMBER OF COMMITTEES.

MY DAY JOB, I USED TO BE THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF A PEER RECOVERY ORGANIZATION HERE IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

SINCE I BECAME CHAIR OF HUMAN SERVICES, I AM NOW DOING HUMAN SERVICES, AND I'M WORKING AS THE STRATEGIST WITH HOFFMAN STRATEGIC ADVISORS, WHICH IS GOING OUT AND HELPING BUSINESSES UNDERSTAND HOW TO DO SWAT ANALYSIS OR HOW YOU DO TEAM BUILDING.

I LEFT THE HOME COMMITTEE BASE SERVICES WORLD, WHICH AS YOU KNOW, BARRY MY ENTIRE ADULT LIFE, YOU AND I HAVE SHARED EXPERIENCES IN THAT, SO AS SENATOR ABELER.

IT'S GREAT TO BE OUT WITH MY FRIEND JIM ABELER.

THERE YOU GO.

>> Barry: THANK YOU, SENATOR HOFFMAN.

SENATOR ABELER, REPRESENTING DISTRICT 55 IN ANOKA.

TELL OUR VIEWERS ABOUT YOURSELF AND THE BACKGROUND.

>> DISTRICT 35 IS ANOKA, MOST OF GRAND RAPIDS FORMALLY KNOWN AS JOHN HOFFMAN TERRITORY, AND A LITTLE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF ANDOVER.

IT WAS QUITE A HARD FOUGHT CAMPAIGN.

THE DISTRICT CHANGED A LOT.

I THOUGHT I WOULD VISIT A FEW OF THE SHOWERS, 20,780 OF THEM, AND THEY WERE GRACIOUS ENOUGH TO SEND ME BACK.

THIS IS MY 24th YEAR IN OFFICE BETWEEN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE.

PLEASED TO BE BACK ON YOUR SHOW AGAIN.

I DO LOOK FORWARD TO THE IN-PERSON, BUT THIS IS AS GOOD AS WE COULD DO SOME TIME.

COVID HAS HELPED PEOPLE GET TOGETHER WHEN THEY CAN'T OTHERWISE COME TESTIFY AT THE LEGISLATURE AND SO ON.

TIMES HAVE CHANGED, AND THE SENATE IS NOW 33 REPUBLICANS AND 34 DEMOCRATS, WHICH JOHN AND I HAVE SWAPPED ROLES, AND IF I HAD TO BE REPLACED, I WOULD NOT WANT TO PICK ANYBODY DIFFERENT THAN HIM TO DO THAT.

HE IS MLB QUALIFIED AND RISING TO THE OCCASION.

I HAVE ACTUALLY A LOT MORE FREE TIME.

I FIX MY MOM'S HURRICANE DAMAGE IN FLORIDA BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE ANY MEETINGS IN DECEMBER.

JOHN PROBABLY HAD A HUNDRED.

IT WAS QUITE AN ADVENTURE TO SPEND 17 DAYS DOING THAT.

NICE TO SERVE AGAIN.

NICE TO BE WITH YOU.

>> Barry: SO LET'S BEGIN WITH SORT OF THE NEWS OF THE WEEK OR NEWS OF THE LAST 10 DAYS OR SO, AND THOSE ARE BUDGET RELATED ISSUES.

THE GOVERNOR RELEASED HIS PROPOSED BUDGET AND OF COURSE GOVERNORS PROPOSED LEGISLATORS DISPOSE THE TWO HOUSES, HOUSE AND SENATE, OF COURSE, HAVE LEGISLATIVE RESPONSIBILITIES WITH REGARD TO ENACTING THE BUDGET THAT WILL EVENTUALLY BE SIGNED BY THE GOVERNOR.

MAYBE WE CAN HAVE A FEW MINUTES OF CONVERSATION ABOUT SORT OF AN OVERVIEW OF WHAT YOU LIKE ABOUT THE BUDGET, WHAT ARE AREAS OF CONCERN, AND MAYBE AREAS THAT ARE LIKELY TO PRODUCE MAYBE SOME SPARKS AS WE MOVE FORWARD IN TERMS OF WHERE THE FINAL BUDGET MIGHT WIND UP.

LET'S START WITH YOU, SENATOR HOFFMAN.

TALK ABOUT THE GOVERNOR'S BUDGET.

>> I WANT TO START OFF WITH ONE STATEMENT, YOUR HONOR, WHEN SOMEBODY IS TALKING ABOUT THE $17 BILLION SURPLUS, THERE'S A COUPLE OF NUANCES HERE THAT HAVE BEEN BOTHERING ME IN THE PAST AND BOTHER ME NOW.

1.12 BILLION OF THAT SURPLUS WAS MONEY THAT WAS UNDERSPENT IN HUMAN SERVICES.

WHAT I MEAN BY UNDERSPENT WAS IT WASN'T SPENT ON THOSE PEOPLE THAT WE CARED FOR THAT WAS INTENDED TO BE SPENT ON.

THERE WAS NUMEROUS REASONS WHY.

SOME OF IT RELATES TO THE FACT THAT THERE WASN'T REALLY ANY FLEXIBILITY, SO YOU HAD KIDS WITH AUTISM THAT WERE GIVEN SERVICES THAT WERE BUDGETED TO BE PAID FOR AND DIDN'T RECEIVE THE SERVICES.

YOU HAD DAY PROGRAMS BECAUSE OF POPULATIONS, AND YOU HAD ADULT DAY SERVICES.

YOU HAD NURSING HOMES, GROUP HOMES THAT HAD TO SHUT DOWN WINGS OF THEIR FACILITIES BECAUSE OF THE FACT THEY HAD STAFFING RELATED PROBLEMS BECAUSE ONCE AGAIN, LOOK AT THE RATE METHODOLOGY THERE.

THE OTHER THING THAT ADDED TO THAT, JUDGE IS 767 MILLION OR SO FEDERAL MEDICAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM MONEY THAT IS SUPPOSED TO GO INTO THAT BUCKET OF HUMAN SERVICES AND ACTUALLY WENT TO THE GENERAL FUND.

WHEN YOU ADD IT ALL UP.

SENATOR ABELER WILL TELL YOU IT'S 1.82 BILLION OF THE SURPLUS SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN HUMAN SERVICES.

IN THE SENSE PEOPLE THAT SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN SERVICES DIDN'T GET SERVICES, AND IT BOTHERS ME, BECAUSE I THINK BASED ON THAT THAT MONEY SHOULD HAVE STAYED OR SHOULD STAY IN HUMAN SERVICES AND PROVIDE FOR THAT.

THEN WHAT HAS HAPPENED SINCE THEN, OF COURSE, AND I LOVE YOUR STATEMENT PROPOSE AND DISPOSE, AND IT'S LIKE -- THAT'S THE FIRST TIME I HAVE HEARD THAT.

IT'S GREAT.

I'M GOING TO KEEP IT.

BUT THE OTHER IS THE GOVERNOR PROPOSES -- THERE'S GOING TO BE A PROCESS.

LIKE I SAID LIKE SENATOR ABELER SAID TO ME, THE GOVERNOR'S PROPOSAL ON LONG-TERM CARE, IT'S A GOOD START.

BUT IT DOESN'T STABILIZE THE SYSTEM LIKE THE BILL THAT JIM INTRODUCED LAST YEAR AND THE BILLY INTRODUCED THIS YEAR, SENATE FILE 7 LAST YEAR AND 6 THIS YEAR, IT ACTUALLY STABILIZES THOSE INDUSTRIES THAT WE CARE ABOUT.

PCA'S, HOME HEALTH AIDES, ASSISTED LIVING, NURSING HOMES, GROUP HOMES AND SERVICES THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO FOLKS WE CARE ABOUT IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

I JUST WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT AGAIN TO YOU WHY IS IT THAT MINNESOTA 1.825 BILLION SITTING IN THAT SURPLUS THAT SHOULD BE OVER HERE IN HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES.

THAT'S MY PITCH FOR THE EVENING, YOUR HONOR.

>> Barry: SENATOR ABELER, YOUR THOUGHTS.

>> THAT'S HIS STORY AND HE'S STICKING TO IT.

I WILL TRY TO BE BROADER.

I HAVE BEEN IN OFFICE FOR A WHILE.

I THOUGHT I WOULD BE COVERING MORE TERRITORY IN MY TIME BUT ACTUALLY BOTH JOHN AND I HAVE GONE NARROWER AND DEEPER AND WE HAVE BEEN DEEPLY IMMERSED IN THE DISABILITY AND COUNTY SERVICES SIDE, ALL THE WAIVER PROGRAMS, CLOSE TO 200,000 PEOPLE UNDER OUR WATCH, AND WHAT IS IT JOHN?

$30 BILLION BIENNIUM.

IT'S STILL MONEY, AND IT'S A CHALLENGING POPULATION, AND WE HAVE HAD A BIPARTISAN BASIS AND ACTUALLY PUSHING THE GOVERNOR TO NOTICE THE POPULATION, AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE BUDGET JUST NOW, GO A LITTLE BROADER, HE SPENT -- IF HE GETS THE SPENDING IDEAS, IT'S GOING TO BE A $65 BILLION BUDGET.

THERE WAS A TAME WE THOUGHT 35 BILLION WAS AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY.

THE OTHER WAS 38 BILLION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

SO THERE'S A 17.6 BILLION DOLLAR SURPLUS.

THAT WASN'T QUITE ENOUGH.

IN HIS BUDGET HE TOOK OVER A BILLION DOLLARS ACCESS FUND, DECIDED TO RAISE THE SALES TAX, RAISE CAR TABS $400 MILLION OVER THE FOUR YEARS, INCREASE PARK FEES, FISHING LICENSES AND WANTS TO DO A FAMILY LEAVE PROGRAM THAT WILL ADD 6/10 OF A% OF A TAX TO EVERY BUSINESS IN MINNESOTA.

AND THAT HE STILL GAVE US POCKET CHANGE IN TERMS OF THE AREA THAT WE CARE ABOUT SO DEARLY.

HUMAN SERVICE LONG-TERM CARE CENTER, WHICH IS GROUP HOMES, NURSING HOMES, SERVICES WITH PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES IS ON THE VERGE OF COLLAPSE.

IF ANYBODY IS LOOKING FOR A JOB, WE NEED 53,000 EMPLOYEES TO DO SERVICES TO THOSE VERY FRAGILE HUMAN BEINGS IN THOSE AREAS, AND THERE'S NOWHERE TO FIND THEM, AND THEY SPENT DOWN TO THE FUMES AND THEIR RESERVES, AND WE HAVE TRIED EVERYTHING WE COULD DO.

I HAVE STOOD ON ONE LEG AND HELD MY BREATH, SENATOR HOFFMAN, AND EVERYTHING ELSE BUT THAT TO GET THE GOVERNOR TO NOTICE.

WE HAVE HAD HEARING AFTER HEARING AND CLOSE TO THE FINISH LINE WITH A BILL THAT WOULD HAVE INJECTED $2 BILLION INTO THE SYSTEM.

THEN AS YOU RECALL NEGOTIATIONS KIND OF BROKE OFF AT THE END OF LAST SESSION, WHICH DOESN'T CHANGE THE NEED OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN DIRE STRAIGHTS.

ANYWAY, WHAT YOU ARE SEEING HERE IS BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT THAT WE HAVE GOT TO RESCUE THESE FOLKS, AND WE HAVE GOT TO KEEP THEIR SERVICES STABLE.

>> IN ADDITION TO THAT, BIAND THE COMMITTEE THAT JIM AND I HAVE, THEY WERE SAYING THE EXACT SAME THING JIM AND I ARE SAYING TO YOU RIGHT HERE.

THERE WAS NO DISCUSSION OF REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT IN THAT CONVERSATION.

THIS WAS ABOUT HOW ARE WE GOING TO ACHIEVE FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE THE MOST VULNERABLE IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

IT ABSOLUTELY BOTHERS ME.

LAST NIGHT, TOO, ONE INDIVIDUAL SAID HOW COME NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT LONG-TERM CARE?

THAT'S WHAT GOT IT GOING.

THAT'S ALL JIM AND I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, YOUR HONOR, IS THE LONG-TERM CARE PLACES.

IT JUST DOESN'T BODE WELL FOR ME TO SAY PRIORITIES AREN'T THERE, ESPECIALLY WHEN THIS HAPPENS.

1.3 MILLION PEOPLE ARE 65 AND OLDER IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

WE HAVE MORE PEOPLE 65 AND OLDER THAN WE DO THAT ARE IN K-12 EDUCATION.

YET WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PRIORITIES, AND I'M NOT TALKING ANYTHING AWAY FROM EDUCATION, BECAUSE I SERVED IN EDUCATION LOCALLY, STATE LEVEL AND FEDERAL LEVEL, AND I KNOW THE NEEDS ARE THERE, RIGHT?

AND NOW WHAT YOU ARE GETTING FROM FOLKS IN THE SCHOOLS ARE MENTAL HEALTH SUBSTANCE USE.

YOU ARE SEEING AN INCREASE OF YOUTH THAT ARE ABSOLUTELY BEING EXPOSED TO ADDICTION THAT IS NOT THERE.

IT'S BECAUSE OF THE FACT THERE'S MENTAL HEALTH.

THERE'S STUFF THAT'S OCCURRING, RIGHT?

THIS GOES IN LINE WITH THE WILDER FOUNDATION, WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT 90% OF THE HOMELESS POPULATION HAS SOME DISABILITY PLUS.

THERE'S CO-OCCURRING STUFF THAT'S HAPPENING IN THERE.

IT JUST BOTHERS ME.

IT REALLY DOES.

ONE MORE THING, JUDGE, THE NURSING HOMES, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT JIM'S STATEMENT OF 53,000 PEOPLE THAT WE COULD GO INTO THE CARE GIVING FACILITY.

THAT'S ACROSS ALL OF THOSE BUCKETS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT.

JUST SPECIFICALLY NURSING HOMES, BECAUSE OF HOW THE RATE RESTRUCTURING IS HAPPENING IN THEM.

THERE'S ONE IN THE WESTERN SUBURBS AT $7 MILLION IN THE HOLE BECAUSE OF WHAT SENATOR ABELER SAID THEY TAPPED INTO THEIR RESERVES.

THERE'S ANOTHER ONE THAT HAS OVER A THOUSAND RESIDENTS IN ALL OF ITS FACILITIES.

THEY HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR MANY, MANY YEARS.

I WON'T TELL YOU THE NAME OF THEM.

BUT IF YOU ARE ON A FRIDAY NIGHT, HERE IS THIS ORGANIZATION THAT'S REALLY LOOKING AT POSSIBLY SHUTTING THEIR DOORS, BARRY, BECAUSE OF THE FINANCIAL IMPACT OF FOUR YEARS, FOUR TO FIVE YEARS.

IT KEEPS ME UP AT NIGHT.

>> Barry: WE WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION, BECAUSE I KNOW IT'S A SUBJECT OF CONCERN TO BOTH OF OUR GUESTS AND VIEWERS, AND WE PARTICULARLY GET QUESTIONS PARTICULARLY ON THE NURSING HOME PIECE.

LET'S MOVE ON TO OTHER QUESTIONS FROM OUR VIEWERS.

THIS IS A QUESTION THAT WE HAVEN'T PREVIOUSLY RECEIVED BUT IT COMES FROM A VIEWER IN THE TWIN CITIES AREA.

HE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT ELECTIONS, AND HE'S VERY CONCERNED ABOUT PERHAPS MOVING TO A DIFFERENT SYSTEM.

HE WOULD PREFER THE RANK CHOICE VOTING SYSTEM.

HE WONDERS WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT MIGHT RECEIVE LEGISLATIVE ACTION THIS YEAR.

LET'S START WITH YOU, SENATOR ABELER.

>> SURE.

I TOLD YOU I WENT TO A FEW DOORS THIS SUMMER.

ONE OF THE PLACES THEY WERE PERSUADED.

THIS WAS THE ANSWER TO MAKE RANK CHOICE VOTING.

IT'S BEING USED CURRENTLY IN THE METRO AND SOME OTHER CITIES.

I'M NOT AS BIG OF A FAN OF IT.

I FRANKLY FOR REASONS YOU MIGHT NOT SUSPECT.

I SEE NOT HAVING RANK CHOICE VOTING AS A WAY FOR SOME OF THE SMALLER PARTIES TO OCCASIONALLY WIN A RACE.

AS A PERSON WHO LIKES BALANCE OF GOVERNMENT, I LIKE DIVIDED GOVERNMENT.

I LIKE MORE VOICES.

WE SHOULD HAVE MORE OF THE MINOR PARTIES REPRESENTED AND I THINK RANK CHOICE VOTING WOULD ACTUALLY TAKE AWAY THAT OPPORTUNITY.

THERE'S MANY BENEFITS TOUTED.

I WILL LEAVE IT AT THAT FOR NOW.

I'M SURE IT'S COMING UP TO A LEGISLATIVE BODY NEAR YOU THIS SESSION.

>> Barry: SENATOR HOFFMAN, YOUR THOUGHTS.

>> IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE THEY SAY YOU AND ABELER THINK ALIKE.

THEY SAY ONE OF THESE THINGS WE DON'T THINK ALIKE ON, JUDGE.

I YAD TO NOT LIKE RANK CHOICE VOTING THAT WAS ON THE SCHOOL BOARD THAT TRIED TO BE PUSHED YEARS AGO.

I LOOKED AT IT AND THOUGHT HOW DO YOU ENGAGE MORE PEOPLE, AND THIS IS WHERE I WOULD DISAGREE WITH SENATOR ABELER.

IMAGINE I DISAGREE WITH SENATOR ABELER ON THE CONCEPT.

>> THAT JUST MEANS YOU ARE WRONG.

THAT'S ALL.

>> YOU KNOW, I HAVE COME A LONG WAY ON THAT THINKING OKAY.

BECAUSE HERE IS THE THING.

JIM EXPERIENCED THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY AN ONSLAUGHT OF MONEY DROPPED AGAINST HIM WITH LIES BEING SPREAD ABOUT HIM.

IT'S PART OF MY ELECTION CAMPAIGN, AND EVERYBODY AND THEIR MOTHER WOULD SAY I'M A BAD PERSON AND SPEND HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS AGAINST ME.

JIM EXPERIENCED THAT FOR THE FIRST TIME.

IT'S NOT OKAY.

TO ME, IT'S NOT OKAY.

I THINK MY OPINION IN THIS -- AND I'M NOT A LAWYER, BUT I CAN SAY MY PERSONAL OPINION IN THIS IS HAVING RANK CHOICE VOTING WOULD ELIMINATE THAT ICKINESS THAT EXISTS.

IF I GET IN HERE, 51% BASED ON THE RANKED CHOICE VOTING THAT I WIN THAT, PLUS IT WOULD ELIMINATE SOME OF THE THINGS WE FIGHT FOR ON THE FACT WE HAVE THESE CAUCUS SYSTEMS AND PRIMARIES.

I THINK, BOTTOM LINE IT IS WORTHY OF A DEBATE, JUDGE.

>> Barry: SO THERE HAVE BEEN EFFORTS TO USE RANK CHOICE VOTING IN A VARIETY OF PLACES AND I DON'T HAVE A POSITION ON IT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, BUT ONE OF THE CONCERNS THAT HAS SOMETIMES BEEN EXPRESSED IN A RANK CHOICE VOTING SYSTEM, YOU MIGHT GET ONE OR TWO CANDIDATES WHO ARE ABOUT WHICH A GREAT DEAL IS KNOWN, AND THEN THERE ARE OTHER CANDIDATES WHICH YOU KNOW RELATIVELY LITTLE.

THE PROBLEM THAT YOU RUN INTO IS THAT YOU MAY HAVE CANDIDATES WHO PREVAIL WHO HAVE NEVER REALLY BEEN PART OF THE CAMPAIGN CONVERSATION, SO TO SPEAK.

THEY DON'T GET THE ATTENTION, PERHAPS, THAN THE LEAD ONE OR TWO CANDIDATES DO.

THE ADVANTAGE OF THE FIRST PASS POST SYSTEM IS THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE VOTING FOR.

YOU MAY NOT KNOW WHO YOU ARE VOTING FOR IN A RANK CHOICE VOTING SYSTEM.

HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

>> GO AHEAD, JOHN.

>> YOU BRING UP SOME POINTS, JUDGE, THAT I WOULD HOPE HAVING AN OPEN CONVERSATION ON THAT WOULD FLUSH THAT OUT.

I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK THAT IS -- I HAVE NOT SEEN THAT IN MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE RANK CHOICE VOTING.

A FRIEND OF MINE RAN FOR A LOCAL SEAT AND RANK CHOICE VOTING, AND SHE DID NOT PREVAIL, BUT IT WAS LIKE I WAS LIKE HOW DOES THIS WORK?

HOW DO THEY UNDERSTAND THIS WORK?

THERE'S A FIRST, SECOND AND THIRD PASS, BUT TO ME THAT SEEMED LIKE A MORE FAIR SYSTEM ON A LOCAL RACE THAN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST, WHICH WOULD HAVE, IN THE LOCAL RACE, YOU WOULD HAVE HAD, BECAUSE OF OUR NEW RULES ON VOTING AND THEN ABSENTEE VOTING AND IT ALL OF A SUDDEN TURNED INTO A SPECIAL ELECTION AND SPREAD IT OUT OVER A MATTER OF MONTHS VERSUS NOW THE RANKED CHOICE VOTING.

IT WAS DONE AND IT WAS UP AND DONE IN A COUPLE DAYS.

I GUESS THAT SHOULD BE SOMETHING THAT IS BROUGHT TO THE TABLE AND DISCUSSED, RIGHT?

>> THE GOAL IS TO GET RID OF PRIMARIES AND THE CAUCUS SYSTEM.

THE CAUCUS SYSTEM IS A MESS ANYWAY.

THERE'S ALWAYS A QUEST TO MAKE ELECTIONS MORE FAIR, BUT THIS IS MY OBSERVATION IN MY SHORT TENURE AS I SAT THROUGH MANY ELECTION BILLS.

WHOEVER SEES A BENEFIT IN A CHANGE WANTS IT.

SELDOM IS IT THE LEGAL LIMIT VOTERS AND WANTS FAIR ELECTIONS AND TALK ABOUT THAT AS A GOAL.

EVERYBODY IS FOR THAT GOAL UNLESS THEY THINK THEY ARE MAYBE GOING TO LOSE SOME VOTES IF THEY CHANGE THE RULES A LITTLE BIT.

TO ME, THAT'S WHAT I SEE, AND I CAN TELL YOU ONE THING.

THE TWO PRIMARY PARTIES DO AGREE THEY DON'T WANT THIRD PARTIES.

WHICH I THINK IS REALLY A PROBLEM.

I THINK WE NEED MORE ACTIVE THIRD PARTIES TO BE EVEN MORE ROBUST.

IN MY RACE WHERE THEY SPENT 5 -- $526,000 ON ME.

THE BEST ANSWER, JUDGE, IS THAT GOOD PEOPLE STAY ENGAGED AND THEY TELL THEIR NEIGHBORS, AND THE CITIZENS WILL GET THE GOVERNMENT THAT THEY ELECT OR THE GOVERNMENT THAT THEY PAY ATTENTION TO AS THEY GO ABOUT ELECTING THEM.

SO THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD AND BAD THAT CAN HAPPEN IN THAT, BUT IT NEEDED AN ENGAGED ELECTORATE, WHATEVER METHOD YOU USE.

>> Barry: I THINK A VIEWER WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE CHANCES OF SUCCESS -- ONE IS RANK CHOICE VOTING THAT HE ASKED ABOUT.

I WOULD BE PERENNIAL ON THE TABLE WHICH WE DISCUSSED IN PREVIOUS YEARS, AND THAT IS THE POSSIBILITY OF MOVING THE PRIMARY TO JUNE, WHAT THE CHANCES ARE FOR EITHER OF THOSE TWO OUTCOMES.

SENATOR ABELER?

>> WHAT'S YOUR IDEA?

>> I THINK THE JUNE PRIMARY THING, I THINK THAT'S A REALITY.

THE RANK CHOICE VOTING, IF YOU COME TO 34 IN THE SENATE, YOU ARE GOOD TO GO.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE COUNT IS ON THAT.

I THINK IT'S MIXED.

YOU HAVE GOT SOME DEMOCRATS THAT LIKE IT.

SOME DEMOCRATS THAT DON'T LIKE IT, AND I KNOW REPUBLICANS THAT LIKE IT AND SOME REPUBLICANS THAT DON'T LIKE IT.

BUT THEN THE THIRD ONE TO ADD IN THEIR JUDGE, THERE'S CONVERSATION OF THE POPULAR VOTE, RIGHT?

WHICH KEEPS THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE BECAUSE CHANGES HOW THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE IS DONE.

THAT WILL PROBABLY GET SOME CONVERSATION AS WELL.

>> ONE THING ABOUT ELECTION BILLS IS THE BEST THING THAT'S BEEN IN THE PAST, ESPECIALLY WITH DIVIDED GOVERNMENT, WE REQUIRE THAT THERE BE BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR EVERYTHING.

I HOPE THAT PRINCIPLE HOLDS AND THAT 34 DEMOCRATS AND 33 REPUBLICAN VOTE ON SIGNIFICANT ELECTORAL CHANGES IS NOT A GOOD IDEA.

WE CAN GET BETWEEN THE 40 YARD LINES ON THOSE CHANGES AND KEEP THE BALANCE THAT PEOPLE REALLY LIKE IN TERMS OF ELECTORAL CHANGE.

>> 61 VOTES IN THE SENATE.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> BIPARTISAN BILL THERE.

THE JUDGE HAS A LOT OF WORK TO DO.

>> Barry: LET'S MOVE ON TO A PERENNIAL QUESTION.

WE GET THE QUESTION OFTEN AND WE WILL KEEP COMING BACK TO IT UNTIL THE LEGISLATURE DECIDES ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

WHAT IS THE STATUS OF OR YOUR VIEW OF POSSIBLY LEGALIZING CANNABIS.

SENATOR ABELER, WE WILL START WITH YOU.

>> I'M ACTUALLY VERY CONCERNED.

I DO BELIEVE THE POPULAR OPINION IS THAT WE SHOULD DO IT.

I'M NOT SURE THE POPULAR THINKERS HAVE THOUGHT OF THE DOWNSIDE.

IT IS NOT A CASUAL THING.

THE MARIJUANA WE HAVE TODAY IS NOT WHAT THEY HAD IN COLLEGE WHEN I WAS IN COLLEGE.

IT'S NOT WHAT HAS BEEN AROUND THE PAST.

IT'S VERY POTENT, IN SOME CASES 90%.

PSYCHOSIS DUE TO THIS VERY STRONG CANNABIS IS VERY REAL, AND I HAVE HAD A NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN MY OFFICE TALKING ABOUT THEIR SON WAS NO LONGER WITH HIM AND THE PSYCHOSIS HE EXPERIENCED AND DOCTORS WORRIED ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT, UP TO THE AGE OF 25 THAT NEVER COMPLETES ITSELF.

MR. WINKLER, THIS IS GREAT.

LET'S GO GET VOTE.

THERE'S HUGE ISSUES ON THE SAFETY ON THE HIGHWAYS.

WE HEARD THE GOVERNOR'S BILL TODAY ON LEGALIZING IT AND NOW 1 DOLLAR OUT OF 100FTE'S, AND I FORGET THE BUDGET, 100 MILLION OR SO, FOR TREATMENT.

IT'S A KNOWN FACT THAT WHEN YOU LEGALIZE THIS AND MAKE IT MORE AVAILABLE, IT'S GOING TO BE MORE AVAILABLE IN THE HANDS OF MIDDLE SCHOOLERS.

SENATOR HOPKINS COMMITTEE AND MINE IS ONE THAT OVERSEES TREATMENT.

I WAS SHOCKED, ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED, THAT THEY WERE SAYING WE ARE GOING TO WORK ON PREVENTION AND EXPLAIN TO THESE YOUNGSTERS WHY IT'S JUST NOT A GOOD IDEA.

HOW DID IT WORK WITH SMOKING?

HOW DOES IT WORK WITH ALCOHOL?

EVEN THOUGH MARIJUANA IS THOUGHT TO BE A TAME DRUG, IT'S NO LONGER TAME.

I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT IT.

IF WE DO LEGALIZE IT, WE HAVE TO FOR SURE MANAGE THE POTENCY, AND TRY TO KEEP IT OUT OF THE HANDS OF -- EVEN LOW 20s IS BAD.

KEEP IT OUT OF THE HANDS OF YOUNGER KIDS.

>> I FORGOT THE SECOND ONE THEY SAID.

PREVENTION AND PARTNERSHIPS, AND I CAME BACK AND I ASKED ABOUT PREVENTION, TREATMENT AND RECOVERY.

YOU HAVE GOT TO HAVE THE THREE THINGS THAT HAPPEN WITH THAT.

THERE'S A LOT OF GAPS IN THAT ONE, BARRY.

I'M LOOKING AT, OKAY, YOU PUT THE MONEY, BUT YOU ARE NOT HEARING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT PREVENTION TREATMENT AND RECOVERY, RIGHT?

AND IT'S LIKE THAT SCARES ME AS A POLICY PERSON, BECAUSE WE KNOW THIS.

ADDICTION IS ADDICTION IS ADDICTION, PERIOD.

IT DIDN'T MATTER.

WE KNOW MOST FOLKS THAT GO THROUGH TREATMENT RIGHT NOW THE ADDICTION IS ALCOHOL, LEGAL ALCOHOL IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA IS THE NO.

1 THING FOR TREATMENT PROVIDERS.

NO.

2 IS METHAMPHETAMINE, AND NO.

3 IS OPIOIDS, RIGHT?

BUT IT'S, YOU KNOW, ADDICTION IS A DISEASE.

WHERE IN THIS BILL IS IT TALKING ABOUT WHAT JIM JUST BROUGHT UP, PREVENTION TREATMENT AND RECOVERY.

WE HAVE WHAT, JIM, 427, 428 TREATMENT PROVIDERS IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

THEY ARE AT CAPACITY, 50 SOME THOUSAND PEOPLE A YEAR GO THROUGH TREATMENT IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

THAT'S JUST ON THOSE TOP THREE, JUDGE, THAT I DID.

NOW YOU ARE GOING TO ADD ANOTHER ONE THAT HAS POTENTIAL TO BE AN ADDICTION, AND IT'S LIKE WHAT ARE WE DOING TO ENHANCE THE SYSTEM THAT'S ALREADY THERE TO HELP SUPPORT SOMEBODY IF THEY DO THAT.

SECOND THING IS -- AGAIN, IT'S NOT A MATTER OF IF.

IT'S A MATTER OF WHEN, BUT TO GET TO THE WHEN, WHERE IS THE CONVERSATION HOW DO YOU KNOW SOMEBODY IS UNDER THE INFLUENCE WHEN THEY ARE DRIVING?

SENATOR ABELER SHOULD TALK ABOUT HIS OWN SON WHO WAS A SERGEANT OF POLICE IN A MAJOR CITY IN A STATE CALLED COLORADO, RIGHT?

I REMEMBER HIS STORIES, JIM, AND I THINK YOU SHOULD SHARE WITH THAT ABOUT WHAT THEIR PROCESS IS, WHAT IS A DUI OR DWI, AND ON TOP OF THAT, YOU SIT THERE AND YOU SAY WAIT A MINUTE.

WHY AREN'T WE LOOKING AT DECRIMINALIZING IT FIRST, AND THEN GO THREW A THE PROCESS ON IT.

I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS THAN I HAVE ANSWERS TO.

>> I COULD TALK MORE BUT IF YOU WANT TO TALK ANOTHER QUESTION, JUDGE, WE CAN DO THAT.

>> Barry: ALL RIGHT.

WE HAVE A QUESTION FROM A VIEWER IN WORTHINGTON WHO WAS NOTING THAT AT SOME POINT THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT REBATING PART OF THE SURPLUS TO TAXPAYERS DIRECTLY IN THE FORM OF A DIRECT CHECK.

WONDERING WHAT THE STATUS OF THAT IS AS PART OF THE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE TAXES AND THE SURPLUS.

SENATOR HOFFMAN, LET'S START WITH YOU.

>> PROBABLY THE JUDGE, I SAW THE COMMENT THIS MORNING BY THE GOVERNOR ON, YOU KNOW, 2 MILLION HOMES GETTING UPWARDS OF $2,500 PER HOUSEHOLD FOR THAT.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY ARE IN THE TAX COMMITTEE.

I KNOW THE EMPHASIS IS ABOUT GETTING RID OF THE SOCIAL SECURITY TAX.

WE DID PASS THE COMPLIANCE WITH THE FEDERAL LAW, WHICH THEN WAS A TAX REBATE TO PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

BUT I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT DISCUSSION IS, JUDGE, OUT OF THE TAX COMMITTEE.

I JUST KNOW FROM THE GOVERNOR'S BUDGET PROPOSAL.

>> Barry: SENATOR ABELER?

>> AND IN A RARE SHOW OF EARLY BIPARTISANSHIP WE DIDN'T PASS THE TAX BILL.

IT'S TYPICALLY EASIER TO DO YOUR TAX BECAUSE WE CONFORM TO THE FEDS, I THINK, IN MUCH MORE WAYS, AND STILL NOT ALL THE WAY.

SOME OF THOSE WAYS ACTUALLY COST MORE MONEY THAN BUSINESSES AND WE ARE KEEPING AWAY FROM SOME OF THOSE.

THAT WAS AN EARLY ACCOMPLISHMENT.

THE REBATES ARE JUICY AND LIKE OH, WOULDN'T THAT BE NICE TO HAVE MONEY IN THE MAIL, AND SO THE DOWNSIDE TO REBATES, THE MONEY NEEDS TO GO BACK TO THE PEOPLE.

WE SHOULD NOT BE SPENDING 17.6 BILLION WHERE THE GOVERNOR IS CLOSE TO 20 BILLION FOLLOWING NEW TAXES AND TAKING MONEY FROM OTHER ACCOUNTS.

20 BILLION.

I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S SUSTAINABLE.

I THINK IT'S ON A COLLISION COURSE WITH ANOTHER DEFICIT SOMETIME.

WE ARE GOING TO WIND UP CUTTING SOME OF THE PROGRAMS THAT WE WERE SO PROUD TO BE INCREASED TO SERVE PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES.

SOCIAL SECURITY TAX, I HAVE WORKED ON THAT.

I GUESS I HAVE NOT BEEN VERY EFFECTIVE.

ONLY GOT A PARTIAL REDUCTION IN ALL OF MY TIME.

IT CAME UP AT THE DOOR AT THE TOP OF THE LIST, PARTICULARLY OF THOSE IN THE SENIOR OR GETTING NEAR THE SENIOR GENERATION, BUT IT NEEDS TO GO.

WE ARE ONE OF A FEW STATES TO TAX IT, AND WE LOSE PEOPLE TO FLORIDA AND TEXAS ALL THE TIME OVER 3 OR $4,000 A YEAR, AND THOSE PEOPLE NEED TO SAVE MINNESOTA RESIDENTS AND GO OR TWO OR THREE MONTH TRIPS, AND THE OTHER TAXES THAT WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT ARE ONES THAT WE CAN ELIMINATE TO REDUCE THE BURDEN ON FAMILIES AND REQUIRE THE STATE TO BE MORE EFFICIENT IN ITS SPENDING, NOT JUST THROW MORE MONEY AT THIS OR THROW MORE MONEY AT THAT.

THE GOVERNOR'S PROPOSALS THERE WERE MANY, MANY NEW PROGRAMS.

4.6 BILLION AS A MATTER OF FACT, AND MY COMMENT TO THAT WAS HOW ABOUT WE TAKE OTHER PROGRAMS WE ALREADY GOT THAT NEED HELP, LIKE PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES OR PEOPLE IN NURSING HOMES OR SOME OF THE PROGRAMS THAT ARE GOING TO HELP PEOPLE STAY INDEPENDENT, LIVING INDEPENDENTLY AND ABLE TO HAVE A JOB IN THEIR COMMUNITY AS A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY.

THOSE WERE WAY UNDERFUNDED AND NOW WE OPEN UP MORE PROGRAMS, AND BY THE WAY, THE PROPOSAL INCLUDED 1200 NEW FTE'S AND IT'S FULL-TIME EQUIVALENCE, AND JUDGE, YOU MAY KNOW THIS, DID YOU THERE'S ONLY 6 OR 7,000 PEOPLE ENTERING THE WORKFORCE THIS YEAR IN MINNESOTA AS NEW PEOPLE.

I DON'T KNOW HOW WE ARE GETTING SUPREME COURT JUSTICES AT THAT RATE.

MAYBE THERE'S ENOUGH LAWYERS.

THAT WILL PROBABLY BE FINE.

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET ALL THE WORKERS WE NEED IN THE CARE SYSTEMS?

WHEN YOU HAVE 1200 PEOPLE IN ONE SECTOR OF GOVERNMENT?

JUDGE, YOUR JOB IS SAFE.

THERE'S NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE TO TRY TO GO AFTER.

BUT YOU HAVE TO BE PRUDENT AND IN A TIME WHERE THERE'S A LOT OF MONEY, YOU WANT TO REDUCE THE BURDEN ON THE PEOPLE THAT GOT IT THERE AND KEEP THE PROGRAM SUSTAINABLE INSTEAD OF SPENDING ON A WILD SPREE.

>> THIS JOB IS NOT SAFE.

>> Barry: MY JOB IS SAFE.

I HIT MANAGERIAL RETIREMENT IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS.

I'M IRRELEVANT TO THIS CONVERSATION.

SENATOR HOFFMAN, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO OFFER ON THIS QUESTION?

>> NO.

I JUST WANT TO REMIND VIEWERS 1.825 BILLION IN THAT RESERVE IN THE SURPLUS, 1.825 BILLION WAS MONEY THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SPENT ON THOSE CURRENT EXISTING PROGRAMS LIKE SENATOR ABELER JUST MENTIONED.

I'M WITH HIM.

I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF NEW SPENDING ON TOP OF THE FACT WE ARE GOING TO DO THIS ON THE RISK OF THOSE FOLKS ON LONG-TERM CARE FOLKS ARE EXPERIENCING RIGHT NOW.

SO 1.825 BILLION.

>> SENATOR HOFFMAN, IF I COULD INTERVIEW YOU, IF YOU ROUND THAT OFF TO $2 BILLION, WHAT IMPACT WOULD THAT HAVE ON A LOPPING-TERM CARE INDUSTRY SECTOR?

WOULD IT MAKE IT MORE STABLE OR CONTINUE ITS ROAD TO COLLAPSE?

>> I'M GLAD YOU ASKED THAT QUESTION, BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S IN THAT BILL THAT WE ARE EXPERIENCING, THE NONEMERGENCY PROVIDERS, WE ARE EXPERIENCING THE ABILITY OF PAYING MORE TO THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE DOING HOME HEALTHCARE SO THEY CAN ACTUALLY JUST HAVE A JOB, AND THEY WOULD WANT TO STAY IN THAT JOB BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT EXEATING.

>> PEOPLE COULD STAY IN THEIR HOMES AND NOT HAVE TO GO TO A NURSING HOME SO QUICK?

>> WOULDN'T THAT BE AMAZING?

>> WELCOME TO THE ABELER SHOW.

>> SENATOR ABELER HAS A NEW LAWYER IN THE FAMILY, AND IF THAT NEW LAWYER IS PAYING ATTENTION, WHAT WE SAW THERE IS WHAT WE CALL LEADING THE WITNESS.

>> ONE MORE THING WE WANT TO BE SURE OF AND SOMETHING THAT MOTIVATED MACE AND SENATOR HOFFMAN EVEN MORE.

ARE YOU AWARE OF ANYBODY THAT HAS COME TO HARM AND MAYBE LOST A LEG OR HAVE EVEN MORE THINGS HAPPEN TO THEM BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T GET ENOUGH STAFFING?

>> THIS ONE WOULD BOTHER, JUDGE, BECAUSE I KNOW.

THERE'S A GENTLEMAN WHO SPENT WEEKS LIVING 24 HOURS A DAY IN HIS WHEELCHAIR BECAUSE HE COULDN'T GET THE HOME HEALTH AID FOLKS TO MOVE HIM FROM HIS WHEELCHAIR TO HIS BED AND BACK.

HE LIVED ALL DAY IN THE WHEELCHAIR AND SLEPT IN THE WHEELCHAIR.

HE DEVELOPED THE BED WOUNDS ON HIS BODY.

LO AND BEHOLD WHEN IT CAME TIME, THEY HAD TO ACTUALLY AMP TATE HIS LEGS AND SENT HIM HOME WITHOUT ANY FOLLOW-UP SUPPORT AND JUST GOING OFF THE REPORT, JUDGE, AND HE DIED.

THAT WAS ONE OF THOSE THAT I HAD SAID IN THE PAPER I'M SICK OF PEOPLE DYING.

IF WE WOULD HAVE HAD STABILIZATION AND HOME HELD AIDES RATHER THAN COMPETING AGAINST BURNSVILLE MCDONALD STARTING AT 21 BUCKS AN HOUR WE COULD HAVE PAID SOMEONE THAT COULD GET HIM FROM HIS WHEELCHAIR TO HIS BED, BUT HE'S DEAD.

THAT'S NOT OKAY.

>> NEVER AGAIN.

>> NEVER AGAIN, JIM.

>> WE HAVE A QUESTION FROM A VIEWER, WHICH WE SOMETIMES GET INTO THE WEEDS HERE ON SOME OF THE QUESTIONS, AND THEY RAISE IMPORTANT ISSUES, AND I THINK IT'S USEFUL TO INTRODUCE THE TOPIC EVEN THOUGH FROM THE PERSPECTIVE MAYBE OF MANY MINNESOTANS, IT DOESN'T SEEM ALL THAT SIGNIFICANT.

BUT HE'S CONCERNED ABOUT THE STATE TAKING AWAY A DRIVER'S LICENSE, BECAUSE THEY ARE A FEW MONTHS BEHIND IN CHILD SUPPORT.

HE WONDERS IF THIS ISN'T COUNTERPRODUCTIVE IN TERMS OF TRYING TO PRODUCE CHILD SUPPORT.

WE HAVE THE LARGER QUESTION OF DEALING WITH CHILD SUPPORT ISSUES WHICH LEGISLATORS FREQUENTLY HEAR FROM CONSTITUENTS ABOUT.

LET'S INTRODUCE THAT TOPIC AND SEE WHAT OUR GUESTS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT.

SENATOR ABELER, YOU FIRST.

>> IT'S COME UP.

I DON'T REMEMBER IF WE TRIED TO FIX IT OR NOT.

IT DOESN'T REALLY MAKE SENSE.

IT WAS MEANT TO BE LEVERAGED SO THE DEAD BEAT DAD WOULD PAY THE MONEY HE'S SITTING ON.

I THINK IT'S A VERY COMPLEX TOPIC, AND THERE'S A GOOD MANY VERY SINCERE, WHICHEVER PARENTS MAY BE, THE WOMAN OR THE DAD, WHO REALLY WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING, BUT IT'S CHALLENGING FOR ANY NUMBER OF REASONS, BUT WHEN THEY LOSE THEIR LICENSE, NOW THEY CAN'T GO TO WORK, AND IT'S GETTING MORE MONEY INTO THE POCKET, AND WE SHOULD LOOK INTO THIS.

I THINK IT'S IN MELISSA'S COMMITTEE.

BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

WE USED TO HAVE THAT IN OUR JURISDICTION, BUT IT GOT SHIFTED TO THE OTHER ONE.

WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT IT?

>> I THINK IT'S ONE OF THOSE WHICH HAND IS THE BRIGHT IDEA, AND WHO THE HECK CAME UP WITH THAT?

WHEN YOU SAID THAT, JUDGE, THAT ABSOLUTELY MAKES ZERO SENSE TO ME.

>> IT'S A NEW TOPIC, BUT WE HAVEN'T WORKED ON IT.

>> JIMMY, THAT'S ALMOST AS BAD AS HERE IS A KID WHO IS IN FOSTER CARE, AND THE COUNTY TAKE THE KID'S SOCIAL SECURITY DISBURSEMENT MONEY AND TAKE IT AWAY FROM THAT CHILD, RIGHT, AND THE COST OF THE COUNTY IS X AMOUNT OF DOLLARS.

I'M LIKE WHY IS THAT OKAY?

GO AHEAD, JIM.

>> Barry: I'M LISTENING.

>> SO THEY ARE A SURVIVOR OR SOMETHING, AND THEY GOT THEIR PARENTS SOCIAL SECURITY AND COME IN THE FOSTER SYSTEM, AND THE COUNTY, INSTEAD OF PUTTING THE MONEY ASIDE SO WHEN THEY TURN 18 THEY WILL HAVE MONEY TO GO TO COLLEGE OR WHATEVER, THE COUNTY KEEPS THE MONEY.

THEY JUST KEEP IT.

THEY DON'T TELL THE KID THAT THEY HAVE IT.

WE ARE WORKING ON THAT, RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

AND IT'S LIKE A $6 MILLION GAP.

BUT THE OTHER THING, JUDGE, THIS WILL HURT YOU, TOO.

75% OF HOMELESS YOUTH WERE ONCE FOSTER KIDS, AND IT'S LIKE WHOSE BRIGHT IDEA WAS IT NOT TO SET UP A TRUST FOR THIS KID WHEN THEY TURN 18 AND COULD MAYBE GO TO SCHOOL OR GO GET A TRADE SOMEPLACE, INSTEAD THEY LEAVE HIM WITH NOTHING.

NOT OKAY.

NOT OKAY.

>> JUDGE, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR US?

>> Barry: WE ARE WORKING OUR WAY THROUGH THE LIST JUST FINE.

WE ARE SLOWLY KNOCKING THEM OFF.

>> I WANT TO KNOW, JUDGE, WHEN YOU FIRST SAW THAT ABELER AND I WERE GOING TO BE YOUR GUEST TONIGHT, WHAT'S THE FIRST THING THAT POPPED IN YOUR HEAD.

>> Barry: WE ARE NOT GOING TO GET THROUGH ALL THE QUESTIONS.

I'M GOING TO TRY TO GET TO THAT NEXT QUESTION, WHICH IS, WHAT ABOUT A BONDING BILL?

IS THERE GOING TO BE A BONDING BILL?

WHAT IS IT GOING TO LOOK LIKE, SENATOR HOFFMAN?

>> YES, ABSOLUTELY GOING TO BE A BONDING BILL.

THERE WAS AN AGREEMENT OF A ROBUST BONDING BILL, AND I JUST MET WITH THE BONDING CHAIR TODAY, AND SHE SAID I WANT TO GO THREW A THE PROJECTS THAT YOU HAD, AND IN TRUE FASHION, TO ADD A FEW MORE TO THAT.

SHE SAID NO, WE ARE MOVING FORWARD TO WHAT WE DID LAST YEAR.

THAT'S WHAT I KNOW.

I DON'T KNOW WHEN THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, BUT THAT'S WHAT I KNOW RIGHT NOW, JUDGE.

>> Barry: SENATOR ABELER?

>> I HOPE WE CAN.

I WOULD BE HAPPY TO VOTE FOR A BONDING BILL, BUT NOTHING IS AS EASY AS IT SEEMS, AND FRANKLY, IT'S 161 PEOPLE WOULD HAVE CHANGED THEIR VOTES, WE WOULD BE SHARING DIFFERENT HATS, AND I'M NOT BEGRUDGING THAT WITH MY FRIEND JOHN, BUT I THINK HE'S A GOOD CHAIR AND WORTHY OF IT.

BUT SOMETIMES THE MAJORITY HAS A WAY TO NOT BE KIND TO THE MINORITY IN A WAY THAT AFFECTS THEIR INTEREST IN COOPERATING.

THE COMMITTEE THAT I SERVE ON, THE HEALTH COMMITTEE, HAS 6 DEMOCRATS AND 3 REPUBLICANS WHEN THEY HAVE A MARGIN OF 1, AND IT SHOULD BE 6-4, SENATOR HOFFMAN 1, AND 6-5, RULINGS ON THE CHAIR THAT ARE CLEARLY BIAS, AND THE SPEED OF SOME OF THESE BILLS THAT ARE VERY EXTREME AND LEAVING US OUT ON THE SIDE HAVE AFFECTED NOT THE INTEREST IN HAVING A BONDING BILL, BUT IN THE INTEREST OF BEING NOTICED AND RELEVANT.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE STATEWIDE VOTES THAT VOTED FOR ALL REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, 8,000 MORE PEOPLE IN THE STATE VOTED FOR DEMOCRATS THAN VOTED FOR REPUBLICANS OUT OF A MILLION SIX VOTES CAST FOR THE WINNERS.

THERE WILL BE A BONDING BILL, I HOPE.

I'M EAGER TO GET TO THE INVOLVEMENT THERE.

BUT THERE'S A DYNAMIC THAT GOES ON THAT -- ESPECIALLY IN THE SENATE, THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IN COLLABORATION, AND NOT WE CAN DO THIS BECAUSE WE HAVE 34 VOTES.

THE FEELING IS COMING THROUGH TOO MUCH AND I HAVE DONE ALL I CAN DO AS A MEMBER OF THE MINORITY TO REACH OUT TO SOME OF THE MAJORITY MEMBERS AND ENCOURAGE THEM TO SOFTEN THAT AND TO GET US BACK ON TRACK SO WE CAN BE COLLABORATORS.

THE BEST GOVERNMENT, BEST WORK WE DO IS WHEN BOTH SIDES GET.

SOME OF THE WORST THINGS THAT COME IS WHEN ONE SIDE DOES WHATEVER IT WANTS, BEING REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT.

HOPEFULLY THE LEADERSHIP WILL RECOGNIZE THAT AND MAKE MORE OUTREACHES TO MAKE THE SYSTEM WORK BETTER SO THAT ALL 67 OF US CAN BE ENGAGED IN THE PROCESS.

>> Barry: OF COURSE THE BONDING WILL SHOULD HAVE THE SUPERMAJORITY.

>> ONE OF THE FEW BARGAINING CHIPS WE HAVE SOMETIMES.

MANY PEOPLE ON MY SIDE WHO ARE FEELING AGGRIEVED, AND THEY ARE WAITING TO COME TO THE TABLE AND BE PART OF THE SOLUTIONS.

>> Barry: SO WE HAVE HAD DISCUSSION THIS WEEK ABOUT EDUCATION, FULLY FUNDING EDUCATION, AND PROPOSALS HAVE BEEN MADE.

VIEWERS WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE STATUS IS OF WHAT I USED TO CALL K THROUGH 12 EDUCATION.

I GUESS WE NOW SAY PREK THROUGH 12 EDUCATION.

SENATOR ABELER WE WILL START WITH YOU AND GO TO SENATOR HOFFMAN.

>> IT'S BEEN A HARD TIME.

I'M ON THE FINANCE COMMITTEE.

BUT SCHOOLS ARE REELING FROM THE EFFECTS OF COVID AND STUDENTS ARE AS WELL.

STUDENTS ARE IN MANY CASES A YEAR BEHIND IN READING AND MATH, AND FIRST, SECOND AND THIRD GRADERS, AND I'M GREATLY CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN THERE.

THE GOVERNOR PROPOSED A VERY LARGE PACKAGE THAT FULLY FUNDS EDUCATION, WHICH THAT TERM IS NOT DEFINED VERY WELL.

BUT IT'S CERTAINLY A GOOD INFLUX, WHICH COULD HELP.

THE KEY IS HOW YOU SPEND IT.

SO HOW CAN WE FIND WAYS TO REACH INTO THESE STUDENTS, FAMILIES AND HOMES AND EDUCATIONAL PROCESS TO GET THEM BACK ON TRACK.

I DON'T KNOW WHY WE HAVEN'T HELD BACK ANYMORE OF THOSE STUDENTS, BECAUSE WE COULD PAY FOR THEM AND THEY WOULD EXPERIENCE SECOND GRADE A SECOND TIME AND GET BACK ON TRACK.

MOST CASES THEY ARE NOT DOING THAT, BUT THAT'S PART OF THE DEBATE.

SENATOR HOFFMAN KNOWS MORE ABOUT THE MONEY PART.

>> THE CONVERSATION THAT JIM ABELER BRINGS UP, THERE WAS A DEBATE YEARS AGO ABOUT THE AGE 5 KINDERGARTEN IS LIKE WHY ARE WE PUSHING KIDS SO FAST TO GET INTO FIRST GRADE.

IT'S ALMOST THE SAME THING.

WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT CLOSING THE ACHIEVEMENT GAP, THERE ARE CERTAIN DISTRICTS THAT FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THAT.

I DON'T KNOW THERE'S ONE IN JIM'S BACKYARD, AND COMPENSATORY EDUCATION MODEL THAT WORKED WELL, RIGHT.

>> LARGEST IN THE STATE.

>> I THINK IT'S THE LARGEST.

WHAT YOU ARE HEARING, JUDGE, IS THAT DISTRICTS ARE NOW EXPERIENCING IS THIS BEHAVIORAL HEALTH PIECE.

I'M TALKING THE UMBRELLA BEHAVIORAL HEALTH, BOTH THE SUBSTANCE USE AND MENTAL HEALTH SIDE OF IT THAT IS OVERWHELMING THE ABILITY TO TEACH, GOING TO JIM ABELER'S POINT THAT KIDS FELL BEHIND.

THEY ALSO SOCIALLY FELL BEHIND.

WHAT ARE WE DOING WITH THAT?

I BROUGHT A BILL THIS PAST WEEK, JIM, THAT WAS TO INCREASE SCHOOL COUNSELORS, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, INCREASE SCHOOL PSYCHOLOGISTS.

THOSE ARE ALL BILLABLE SERVICE THAT SHOULDN'T COST PEOPLE ANYMORE THAN WHAT IT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE ABLE TO RECOUP THOSE FUNDS BECAUSE THEY ARE MEDICALLY RELATED SERVICES AND THE SCHOOL COUNSELOR SIDE OF IT, WE STILL RANK TERRIBLE.

WE HAVE ONE COUNSELOR, AND YOU PROBABLY SAW THAT.

IS IT STILL 650 OR SOMETHING?

>> I THINK SO, YEAH.

>> IT'S NOT OKAY.

SO IF YOU ARE GOING TO SAY YOU WANT TO ADDRESS OR FIX A SYSTEM, YOU HAVE GOT TO LOOK AT THE WHOLE SYSTEM, JUDGE.

I'M GLAD ABELER IS SITTING IN POLICY TO ADDRESS THAT AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO FINANCIALLY.

>> JUDGE, IF WE DO A LIGHTNING ROUND, WE COULD TALK SHORT.

WE ARE CAPABLE.

>> Barry: LET'S START WITH A LIGHTNING ROUND QUESTION.

A VIEWER IN MINNEAPOLIS WANTS TO KNOW ABOUT CRIME ON THE LIGHT RAIL AND WHAT THE LEGISLATURE, IF ANYTHING IS GOING TO DO ABOUT IT.

SENATOR HOFFMAN, START WITH YOU.

>> INCREASE THE ABILITY THAT METRO POLICE HAVE.

IT'S A GOOD GROUP OF PEOPLE AND WE NEED TO BUILD THE CAPACITY HIGHER.

>> I'M AGAINST.

>> Barry: WE HAVE PAST QUESTIONS FROM VIEWERS DEALING WITH THE ISSUE OF THE REGENTS ELECTION PROCESS.

WHAT DID THAT LOOK LIKE IN THIS SESSION.

SENATOR ABELER, WE WILL START WITH YOU.

>> LIGHTNING ROUND.

>> THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST CHALLENGING AND PERSONALLY -- THE PROBLEM WITH THE SYSTEM IS THERE'S A GROUP OF 24 PEOPLE THAT BRING FORWARD GOOD CANDIDATES.

THEY SCREEN THEM.

THEN AT THE END THEY GO TO THE COMMITTEES AND BRING FORWARD RECOMMENDATION FOR A FLOOR NOMINEE.

AT THE END ANYBODY CAN BE NOMINATED FROM THE FLOOR.

IF WE CAN GET RID OF THE FLOOR NOMINATION PROCESS, THE SYSTEM WILL WORK WELL.

OTHERWISE THE GOVERNOR SHOULD APPOINT THEM AND BE WITH IT.

>> AGREED.

I AGREE WITH ABELER.

>> Barry: CONCERNS WITH DEER FARMS AND THE SPREAD OF CHRONIC WASTE AND DISEASE.

SENATOR HOFFMAN.

>> REPRESENTATIVE OF THE OTHER BODY THAT ACTUALLY SLEEPS THIS CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE, AND HE'S ACTUALLY GOING TO MAKE IT A PRIORITY.

IT WOULD BE REPRESENTATIVE HANSEN.

LOOKING FORWARD TO HAVING THE CONVERSATIONS BECAUSE I JUST GOT REAPPOINTED TO THE ENVIRONMENT, ENERGY AND CLIMATE COMMITTEE.

WE WILL ADDRESS SOME OF THAT.

BUT MOST OF IT IS GOING TO SIT OVER IN AGRICULTURE.

>> AGREED.

>> Barry: QUESTION FROM A VIEWER ABOUT ELECTRIC CARS.

WHAT IS THE LEGISLATURE GOING TO DO ABOUT ELECTRIC CARS.

SENATOR ABELER, START WITH YOU.

>> ELECTRIC CARS, THEY ARE GREAT, BUT THEY ARE NOT THE SHANGRI-LA, ESPECIALLY IN THE NORTHERN CLIMATE.

ONE GUY WAS EXCITED ABOUT THE ELECTRIC MILES.

GETS 260 MILES ON A CHARGE, MAYBE 180 IN THE WINTER.

I SAID DO YOU GO TO FLORIDA IN THAT THING?

HE SAID OH, YEAH.

IT WILL BE A LONG TRIP.

WHEN MORE STORAGE HAPPENS, WE CAN DO SO MUCH MORE THINGS.

I WILL LEAVE IT AT THAT.

>> Barry: HOFFMAN.

>> SPOT ON.

WE DON'T HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT IT.

THE THIRD THING IS OUR LEASE VEHICLE SALES TAX, THE MORE AND MORE YOU HAVE ON THAT, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO OFFSET WHERE WE ABSOLUTELY LOSE REVENUE FROM THE GAS TANKS.

I'M PUTTING OUT THAT THAT'S GOING TO BE A PROBLEM, JUDGE, IS REVENUE.

>> WOULDN'T MIND TAXING THE RICH PEOPLE WITH ELECTRIC CARS.

>> I SAID THE TOP PERCENT DON'T PAY ENOUGH IN TAXES AND FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS, WE HAVE DONE TOWN HALL EXHIBITS, AND THERE'S NOT ENOUGH 1 PERCENTERS.

>> Barry: IT'S NICE WHEN YOU CAN PRESENT THE OTHER GUEST'S ARGUMENTS.

SAVES TIME.

LET'S GO TO ANOTHER QUESTION THAT WE TOUCHED ON EARLIER BUT WE DIDN'T ACTUALLY GET TO THE END OF THE PAGE.

THIS VIEWER IS REMINDING OF THIS AND WANTS TO KNOW ARE WE IN FACT GOING TO ENACT SOMETHING THAT WILL INVOLVE ENDING THE TAXATION OF SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS?

SENATOR HOFFMAN.

>> YES, AS A MATTER OF FACT THERE'S FOUR BILLS UP THERE.

THERE'S COAUTHORS, AND I'M ONE OF THEM.

>> I THINK SO.

I THINK THE SENATE IS STRONGER ON THIS THAN THE HOUSE.

THERE ARE SENATORS THAT AVOID WE WERE GOING TO DO IT.

HOPEFULLY THIS BILL IN THIS SITUATION THE SENATE CAN LEAD THE WAY AND DRAG THE HOUSE ALONG.

THE GOVERNOR DID A LIMITED REPEAL.

IT NEEDS TO BE FULLY REPEALED.

>> Barry: WE HAVE A VIEWER WHO WANTS TO KNOW ABOUT HIGHER EDUCATION AND WHAT THE BUDGET FOR THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA AND THE STATE COLLEGE SYSTEM IS LIKELY TO LOOK LIKE.

SENATOR ABELER, LET'S GO TO YOU.

>> HOCKINGLY IN A BUDGET THAT SPENT OVER $20 BILLION, THE GOVERNOR GAVE 65 BILLION TO MINNESOTA STATE.

THAT'S NOT ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY THE 2% COLA TO THE STAFF.

I DIDN'T COME HERE TO BASH THE GOVERNOR.

I'M HERE TO WORK WITH THE GUY, AND HE NEVER CALLS ME BACK, WHICH HE SEEMS TO HAVE A HARD TIME DOING.

I'M NOT KIDDING.

I WISH HE WOULD HAVE ENGAGED ME MORE.

A LOT OF US WISH THAT AS WELL.

LONG-TERM SIDE, HIGHER ED SIDE, SOME OF THE CRITICAL CALS ARE CRITICAL.

TYPICALLY MINNESOTA STATE IS EVERY MAN'S, WOMAN'S YOUNG PERSON'S OPPORTUNITY.

THEY ADMIT THEM ALL TO HAVE A CHANCE TO SUCCEED.

WE HAVE GOT TO KEEP THEM STRONG AND 65 MILLION IN A BUDGET OF 20 BILLION IS COMICAL.

>> ADDING ALL THOSE BUCKETS, JIM, IT'S LIKE $300 MILLION IS WHAT SENATOR HAS, AND IT'S NOT CLOSE TO WHAT'S NEEDED.

A LOT OF WORK TO DO ON THAT ONE, JUDGE.

>> Barry: TRANSPORTATION, SENATOR HOFFMAN.

WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH TRANSPORTATION THIS SESSION?

20 SECONDS HERE, IT'S YOURS.

>> I WANT TO SEE EMERGENCY TRANSPORTATION THAT GET FULLY FUNDED FOR THE RATES THEY NEED.

WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT DESPERATELY NEED THAT.

THERE YOU GO.

>> Barry: SENATOR ABELER.

>> GOVERNOR PROPOSED SOME CAR TAB INCREASES AND SALES TAX.

I THINK THERE'S ENOUGH MONEY IN THE SYSTEM TO GET THE ROADS WORKING, PARTICULARLY ONES IN COON RAPIDS, DAYTON AND ROGERS.

>> HIGHWAY 10.

>> HIGHWAY 10.

>> Barry: ARE THOSE TAXES GOING TO PASS, DO YOU THINK?

>> NOT IF IT'S UP TO ME.

>> JUDGE, I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE GOT 34 VOTES YET IN THE SENATE ON THAT ONE.

>> HOLY COW.

WE HAVE 17 BILLION SURPLUS, AND YOU ARE RAISING TAXES.

>> Barry: I WANT TO THANK OUR GUESTS THIS EVENING, SENATOR JIM ABELER FROM ANOKA AND JOHN HOFFLER FROM CHAMPLIN.

WE DID A LIGHTNING ROUND AND COVERED A LOT OF TOPICS.

WE INVITE YOU TO JOIN US NEXT BEAK AND ALL THE WEEKS THAT FOLLOW AS WE UNRAVEL THE MYSTERIES OF ST. PAUL.

THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT.

>> "YOUR LEGISLATORS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE MINNESOTA CORN GROWERS ASSOCIATION FROM DEVELOPING BEST PRACTICES THAT HELP FARMERS BETTER PROTECT OUR NATURAL RESOURCES TO THE LATEST INNOVATIONS IN CORN BASED PLASTICS.

MINNESOTA CORN FARMERS ARE PROUD TO INVEST IN THIRD PARTY RESEARCH LEADING TO A MORE SUSTAINABLE FUTURE FOR OUR LOCAL COMMUNITIES, MINNESOTA FARMERS UNION, STANDING FOR AGRICULTURE, WORKING FOR FARMERS, ON THE WEB AT MFU.ORG.

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